I love this technique. It’s fun to use on missionaries—I got a couple Mormons a while ago and was able to chatter excitedly about how I’d got this tenet and that article down because of other correspondences, but now they were here, and I’d heard missionaries had special knowledge of these things, and maybe they could clear up one or two points of confusion? It turns out that the best way to get rid of missionaries is to be sincerely sorry to see them go.
This is true, not only is it practical but it also makes a good rhetorical hammer, for example I once started an argument with a truther friend asking him what exactly he believed, “for instance, do you believe all the Jews were evacuated before the planes hit?”. Forcing someone defending an irrational belief to first disassociate himself from all the really nutty stuff hanging on to his position works wonders.
I should probably remember to do more Socratic debating in friendly debates with incoming novices—never make a statement yourself if you can ask a question that will get the other person to make it.
I often think this, but find it very difficult in practice. People don’t respond to your questions the way you want; they find a way to hook off them to noodle on what’s on their mind rather than really trying to engage with them.
I agree. Actually, questions are useful at any time. When it seems like the person is changing their position without acknowledging it, I usually ask something like this:
“I’m a little confused. Before, you seemed to be saying X. Now, you seem to be saying Y. Which is it?”
If the person evades my question, that’s the end of the debate as far as I am concerned. I have my own rules of debate, and one rule is that my opponent must answer reasonable questions so that I may understand his or her position.
Than it isn’t an argument and you don’t have anything to lose. If someone is being preachy and are completely uninterested in your positions just let them talk. Keep asking questions and a surprising thing happens: Everyone else in the room will suddenly realize the person talking is an idiot.
A good way to begin an argument is by asking questions about the other person’s position, to get it nailed down.
I love this technique. It’s fun to use on missionaries—I got a couple Mormons a while ago and was able to chatter excitedly about how I’d got this tenet and that article down because of other correspondences, but now they were here, and I’d heard missionaries had special knowledge of these things, and maybe they could clear up one or two points of confusion? It turns out that the best way to get rid of missionaries is to be sincerely sorry to see them go.
This is true, not only is it practical but it also makes a good rhetorical hammer, for example I once started an argument with a truther friend asking him what exactly he believed, “for instance, do you believe all the Jews were evacuated before the planes hit?”. Forcing someone defending an irrational belief to first disassociate himself from all the really nutty stuff hanging on to his position works wonders.
I should probably remember to do more Socratic debating in friendly debates with incoming novices—never make a statement yourself if you can ask a question that will get the other person to make it.
I often think this, but find it very difficult in practice. People don’t respond to your questions the way you want; they find a way to hook off them to noodle on what’s on their mind rather than really trying to engage with them.
I agree. Actually, questions are useful at any time. When it seems like the person is changing their position without acknowledging it, I usually ask something like this:
“I’m a little confused. Before, you seemed to be saying X. Now, you seem to be saying Y. Which is it?”
If the person evades my question, that’s the end of the debate as far as I am concerned. I have my own rules of debate, and one rule is that my opponent must answer reasonable questions so that I may understand his or her position.
You’ve got to be careful though. Some people, i.e. many creationists, will just take that as an invitation to ramble ad infinitum.
Than it isn’t an argument and you don’t have anything to lose. If someone is being preachy and are completely uninterested in your positions just let them talk. Keep asking questions and a surprising thing happens: Everyone else in the room will suddenly realize the person talking is an idiot.