I can’t think of rational arguments, even steelmanned ones, beyond those Holden already gave. Maybe I’m too close to the whole thing, but I think that when viewed rationally, MIRI is on pretty solid ground.
If I wanted to make people wary of supporting MIRI, I’d simply go ad hominem . Start with selected statements from supporters about how much MIRI is about Eliezer, and from Eliezer about how he can’t get along with AI researchers, how he can’t do straight work for more than two hours per day and how “this is a cult”. Quote a few of the psychotic sounding parts from Eliezer’s old autobiography piece. Paint him as a very skilled writer/persuader whose one great achievement was to get Peter Thiel to throw him a golden bone. Describe the whole Friendliness issue as an elaborate excuse from someone who claimed ability to code an AGI fifteen years ago, and hasn’t.
Of course that’s a lowly and unworthy style of argument, but it’d get attention from everyone there, and I wonder how you’d defend against it.
I think I’m basically prepared for that line of attack. MIRI is not a cult, period. When you want to run a successful cult you do it Jim-Jones-style, carting everyone to a secret compound and carefully filtering the information that makes it in or out. You don’t work as hard as you can to publish your ideas in a format where they can be read by anyone, you don’t offer to publicly debate William Lane Craig, and you don’t seek out the strongest versions of criticisms of your position (i.e. those coming from Robin Hanson).
Eliezer hasn’t made it any easier on himself by being obnoxious about how smart he is, but then again neither did I; most smart people eventually have to learn that there are costs associated with being too proud of some ability or other. But whatever his flaws, the man is not at the center of a cult.
Sure MIRI isn’t a cult, but I didn’t say it was. I pointed out that Eliezer does play a huge role in it and he’s unusually vulnerable to ad hominem attack. If anyone does that, your going with “whatever his flaws” isn’t going to sound great to your audience.
I think I’d point out that he’s a fairly public person, which both should increase trust and gives more material for ad hominem attacks. And once someone else has dragged the discussion down to a personal level, you might as well throw in appeals to authority with Elon Musk on AI risk, i.e. change the subject.
I can’t think of rational arguments, even steelmanned ones, beyond those Holden already gave. Maybe I’m too close to the whole thing, but I think that when viewed rationally, MIRI is on pretty solid ground.
If I wanted to make people wary of supporting MIRI, I’d simply go ad hominem . Start with selected statements from supporters about how much MIRI is about Eliezer, and from Eliezer about how he can’t get along with AI researchers, how he can’t do straight work for more than two hours per day and how “this is a cult”. Quote a few of the psychotic sounding parts from Eliezer’s old autobiography piece. Paint him as a very skilled writer/persuader whose one great achievement was to get Peter Thiel to throw him a golden bone. Describe the whole Friendliness issue as an elaborate excuse from someone who claimed ability to code an AGI fifteen years ago, and hasn’t.
Of course that’s a lowly and unworthy style of argument, but it’d get attention from everyone there, and I wonder how you’d defend against it.
I think I’m basically prepared for that line of attack. MIRI is not a cult, period. When you want to run a successful cult you do it Jim-Jones-style, carting everyone to a secret compound and carefully filtering the information that makes it in or out. You don’t work as hard as you can to publish your ideas in a format where they can be read by anyone, you don’t offer to publicly debate William Lane Craig, and you don’t seek out the strongest versions of criticisms of your position (i.e. those coming from Robin Hanson).
Eliezer hasn’t made it any easier on himself by being obnoxious about how smart he is, but then again neither did I; most smart people eventually have to learn that there are costs associated with being too proud of some ability or other. But whatever his flaws, the man is not at the center of a cult.
Sure MIRI isn’t a cult, but I didn’t say it was. I pointed out that Eliezer does play a huge role in it and he’s unusually vulnerable to ad hominem attack. If anyone does that, your going with “whatever his flaws” isn’t going to sound great to your audience.
How would you recommend responding?
I think I’d point out that he’s a fairly public person, which both should increase trust and gives more material for ad hominem attacks. And once someone else has dragged the discussion down to a personal level, you might as well throw in appeals to authority with Elon Musk on AI risk, i.e. change the subject.