I’m unconvinced that this is a good question, for two reasons.
If it exists but is incredibly rare, the answer is still “yes”. And for pretty much anything you can briefly describe, there exist people who take pleasure in it.
There are probably substantial numbers of people who, e.g., take pleasure in unwanted pain when inflicted as punishment for something they strongly disapprove of. This may or may not be a bad thing, but it doesn’t seem reasonable to say that it’s evil by definition. (And I guess that James_Miller didn’t intend to.)
So I think we’d get nearer to James’s intent if we asked whether a substantial fraction of humans (let’s say, at least 3% or so) take pleasure in other people’s unwanted pain for its own sake.
The reason why I made the poll was that I read James’s comment (before the edit), noticed the downvote, and was like: “What? I thought this was completely obvious? Does anyone here actually disagree? Wow, I am so curious to ask about their reasons.”
First, I wanted just to write “Dear downvoter, please explain.” with a hope to have an interesting conversation. But then I thought it would be even better to know how many people share which opinion. Like, maybe I am the minority here and… uhm, don’t know what, but could be an interesting opportunity to learn.
So, in a way, getting the answers I got here was a new information for me.
EDIT: Feel free to make a new poll with more detailed options. I am not sure what they should be.
When trying to be more precise, it might be useful to distinguish between “enjoys other people’s pain” and “enjoys something that causes other people pain, and is neutral about the pain”. For example, many people love playing computer games where they shoot virtual people. Now imagine that the only opportunity would be shooting real people. Some people would refuse. Some people would enjoy doing it.
Now imagine the latter people and give them an opportunity to shoot virtual people on the computer. Some would enjoy it. Some would refuse it as pointless. So now here are four possible categories: 1) Does not enjoy shooting virtual or real people. 2) Enjoys shooting virtual people, but not real people. 3) Enjoys shooting both virtual and real people. 4) Enjoys shooting real people, but not virtual people.
I am trying to express the difference between the 3 and 4. The latter derives pleasure directly from harming real people. The former harms people and enjoys it, but these two things are not necessarily connected, as he could get the same pleasure from shooting virtual people.
I don’t think it really matters. “Evil” isn’t an archetype meant for describing psychopaths. It’s meant for describing people like Al Qaeda. Or, if you happen to be a member of Al Qaeda, for describing Americans. It’s a form of dark arts used by Azathoth to make us behave in a way that we, personally, do not wish to behave in. Don’t repurpose it for a tiny portion of humanity that acts vaguely like that by coincidence. Abandon it.
Okay, time for a poll:
Do you believe that “taking pleasure in someone else’s unwanted pain” exists in some humans?
[pollid:829]
I’m unconvinced that this is a good question, for two reasons.
If it exists but is incredibly rare, the answer is still “yes”. And for pretty much anything you can briefly describe, there exist people who take pleasure in it.
There are probably substantial numbers of people who, e.g., take pleasure in unwanted pain when inflicted as punishment for something they strongly disapprove of. This may or may not be a bad thing, but it doesn’t seem reasonable to say that it’s evil by definition. (And I guess that James_Miller didn’t intend to.)
So I think we’d get nearer to James’s intent if we asked whether a substantial fraction of humans (let’s say, at least 3% or so) take pleasure in other people’s unwanted pain for its own sake.
Yes, I agree.
The reason why I made the poll was that I read James’s comment (before the edit), noticed the downvote, and was like: “What? I thought this was completely obvious? Does anyone here actually disagree? Wow, I am so curious to ask about their reasons.”
First, I wanted just to write “Dear downvoter, please explain.” with a hope to have an interesting conversation. But then I thought it would be even better to know how many people share which opinion. Like, maybe I am the minority here and… uhm, don’t know what, but could be an interesting opportunity to learn.
So, in a way, getting the answers I got here was a new information for me.
EDIT: Feel free to make a new poll with more detailed options. I am not sure what they should be.
When trying to be more precise, it might be useful to distinguish between “enjoys other people’s pain” and “enjoys something that causes other people pain, and is neutral about the pain”. For example, many people love playing computer games where they shoot virtual people. Now imagine that the only opportunity would be shooting real people. Some people would refuse. Some people would enjoy doing it.
Now imagine the latter people and give them an opportunity to shoot virtual people on the computer. Some would enjoy it. Some would refuse it as pointless. So now here are four possible categories: 1) Does not enjoy shooting virtual or real people. 2) Enjoys shooting virtual people, but not real people. 3) Enjoys shooting both virtual and real people. 4) Enjoys shooting real people, but not virtual people.
I am trying to express the difference between the 3 and 4. The latter derives pleasure directly from harming real people. The former harms people and enjoys it, but these two things are not necessarily connected, as he could get the same pleasure from shooting virtual people.
I don’t think it really matters. “Evil” isn’t an archetype meant for describing psychopaths. It’s meant for describing people like Al Qaeda. Or, if you happen to be a member of Al Qaeda, for describing Americans. It’s a form of dark arts used by Azathoth to make us behave in a way that we, personally, do not wish to behave in. Don’t repurpose it for a tiny portion of humanity that acts vaguely like that by coincidence. Abandon it.
A third reason is that “pain” is somewhat ambiguous. Does schadenfreude count?
Yes, yes it does.
Yes, good point. I kinda just assumed it really meant “suffering” in some generalized sense, rather than anything narrower.