If there is no multiverse, “Why is the universe the way it is rather than any other way?” is a perfectly good question to which we haven’t found the answer yet. However, theists don’t merely ask that question, they use our ignorance as an argument for the existence of a deity. They think a creator is the best explanation for fine-tuning. The obvious counter-argument is that not only is a creator not the best explanation, it’s not an explanation at all. We can ask the exact same question about the creator that we asked about the universe: Why is the creator what it is rather than something else? Why isn’t ‘He’ something that couldn’t be called a ‘creator’ at all, like a quark, or a squirrel? Or, to put the whole thing in the right perspective, why is the greater universe formed by the combination of our universe and its creator the way it is, rather than any other way?
At this point the theist usually says that God is necessary, or outside of time, which could just as easily be true of the universe as we know it. Or the theist might say that God is eternal, while our universe probably isn’t, which is irrelevant. None of these alleged characteristics of God’s explain why He’s fine-tuned, anyway.
I was thinking along similar lines but didn’t post because I was talking myself in circles. So I gave up and weighted the hypothesis that this kind of philosophy is insoluble. Here’s what I wrote:
In such a debate, what is the end goal—what counts as winning the debate question? If they provide a hypothesis that invokes God, is it sufficient to just provide another plausible hypothesis that doesn’t? (Then, done.)
Or do you really need to address the root of the root of the question: Why are we here? (Even if you have multi-verses, why are they all here?) And “why” isn’t really the question anyway. It’s just a complaint, “I don’t understand the source of everything.” … “If there is a source ‘G’, I don’t understand the source of ‘G’.”
You can’t answer that question: The property “always existing” or the transition between “not existing and then existing” is a mystery; it’s the one thing atheists and theists can agree on. How does giving it a name mean anything more? So I think the best argument is that invoking God doesn’t answer the question either.
Unless is the problem really about whether or not this is evidence that something wanted us to be here? Then finding plausible scientific hypothesis for X,Y, Z would never answer the question. You would always have remaining, did someone want this all to be so?
And I got stuck there, because if something exists, to what extent was it “willed” has no meaning to me at the moment.
If there is no multiverse, “Why is the universe the way it is rather than any other way?” is a perfectly good question to which we haven’t found the answer yet. However, theists don’t merely ask that question, they use our ignorance as an argument for the existence of a deity. They think a creator is the best explanation for fine-tuning. The obvious counter-argument is that not only is a creator not the best explanation, it’s not an explanation at all. We can ask the exact same question about the creator that we asked about the universe: Why is the creator what it is rather than something else? Why isn’t ‘He’ something that couldn’t be called a ‘creator’ at all, like a quark, or a squirrel? Or, to put the whole thing in the right perspective, why is the greater universe formed by the combination of our universe and its creator the way it is, rather than any other way?
At this point the theist usually says that God is necessary, or outside of time, which could just as easily be true of the universe as we know it. Or the theist might say that God is eternal, while our universe probably isn’t, which is irrelevant. None of these alleged characteristics of God’s explain why He’s fine-tuned, anyway.
I was thinking along similar lines but didn’t post because I was talking myself in circles. So I gave up and weighted the hypothesis that this kind of philosophy is insoluble. Here’s what I wrote:
In such a debate, what is the end goal—what counts as winning the debate question? If they provide a hypothesis that invokes God, is it sufficient to just provide another plausible hypothesis that doesn’t? (Then, done.)
Or do you really need to address the root of the root of the question: Why are we here? (Even if you have multi-verses, why are they all here?) And “why” isn’t really the question anyway. It’s just a complaint, “I don’t understand the source of everything.” … “If there is a source ‘G’, I don’t understand the source of ‘G’.”
You can’t answer that question: The property “always existing” or the transition between “not existing and then existing” is a mystery; it’s the one thing atheists and theists can agree on. How does giving it a name mean anything more? So I think the best argument is that invoking God doesn’t answer the question either.
Unless is the problem really about whether or not this is evidence that something wanted us to be here? Then finding plausible scientific hypothesis for X,Y, Z would never answer the question. You would always have remaining, did someone want this all to be so?
And I got stuck there, because if something exists, to what extent was it “willed” has no meaning to me at the moment.