On the epilogue: I guess I’m pretty unconvinced by the idea that people who don’t care much about/are mildly interested in their potential space properties will just sell off their tickets, or even be able to. You’re essentially flooding the market with capital by giving everyone what is, in expectation, a 10 billionth of the lightcone. I’m not sure there’d be enough money on earth to make more than a small minority of people sell off their tickets, even if those people don’t particularly care much (presumably they care somewhat, though not necessarily in any strong way) about what happens in their slice of the universe, this ignoring people who want to keep their tickets so that they can be worshipped by new life on their part of the universe, or because they want to have some sort of space harem.
Besides that, like 1⁄4 of the world is muslim, and many more people are religious fundamentalists of other sorts, or engage in some other, secular blend of fanaticism. I remain unconvinced that passing over large fractions of the universe to these people is a good idea.
I remain unconvinced that passing over large fractions of the universe to these people is a good idea.
the scenario has “no slavery, no torture” rules. It doesn’t specify but you might enforce some kind of exit rights.
I think it’s harder to define a rule about “no brainwashing people”, but I think basically either you solve that, or you don’t, and either way whether or not the cosmic commons is seeded with any particular culture is small potatoes compared to how memetic evolution goes over trillions of years.
Certainly laws like “no slavery, no torture” are nowhere near sufficient for this, nor are they particularly well-defined. But, even ignoring that, the loss of otherwise-possible value from these areas is still incredibly significant!
Yeah, but, the most obvious alternative is “instead of principled liberalism, all out memetic war for the future.” (and betting that whoever wins is actually better than principled liberalism.)
(it’d also be pretty surprising to me if dogmatic settlers stayed the same particular flavor of dogmatic for more than a couple thousand years (really more than a few hundred)
There used to be wars all the time about religions (which, indeed makes major claims about what’s good or bad that seem naively horrible to let the other guys win). And it turns that “we agree to live-and-let live about that” outperforms most other deals tried so far.
CEV, or the general category of extrapolation/idealization processes (and I am confused and dismayed how rarely I see this mentioned in these conversations nowadays).
Okay, I actually also have a “wtf guys why aren’t we talking about CEV more?” post lined up. I think I didn’t bring it up in this context because I’m treating the AI 2040 Plan A desiderata to include “it can be explained succinctly in a paragraph that the average pretty smart human will read and say ‘okay I see how that would be fair/reasonable/good.’”
I think it would be great if we had such a paragraph for CEV, although I don’t currently.
On the epilogue: I guess I’m pretty unconvinced by the idea that people who don’t care much about/are mildly interested in their potential space properties will just sell off their tickets, or even be able to. You’re essentially flooding the market with capital by giving everyone what is, in expectation, a 10 billionth of the lightcone. I’m not sure there’d be enough money on earth to make more than a small minority of people sell off their tickets, even if those people don’t particularly care much (presumably they care somewhat, though not necessarily in any strong way) about what happens in their slice of the universe, this ignoring people who want to keep their tickets so that they can be worshipped by new life on their part of the universe, or because they want to have some sort of space harem.
Besides that, like 1⁄4 of the world is muslim, and many more people are religious fundamentalists of other sorts, or engage in some other, secular blend of fanaticism. I remain unconvinced that passing over large fractions of the universe to these people is a good idea.
the scenario has “no slavery, no torture” rules. It doesn’t specify but you might enforce some kind of exit rights.
I think it’s harder to define a rule about “no brainwashing people”, but I think basically either you solve that, or you don’t, and either way whether or not the cosmic commons is seeded with any particular culture is small potatoes compared to how memetic evolution goes over trillions of years.
Certainly laws like “no slavery, no torture” are nowhere near sufficient for this, nor are they particularly well-defined. But, even ignoring that, the loss of otherwise-possible value from these areas is still incredibly significant!
Yeah, but, the most obvious alternative is “instead of principled liberalism, all out memetic war for the future.” (and betting that whoever wins is actually better than principled liberalism.)
(it’d also be pretty surprising to me if dogmatic settlers stayed the same particular flavor of dogmatic for more than a couple thousand years (really more than a few hundred)
There used to be wars all the time about religions (which, indeed makes major claims about what’s good or bad that seem naively horrible to let the other guys win). And it turns that “we agree to live-and-let live about that” outperforms most other deals tried so far.
What sort of alternatives do you have in mind?
CEV, or the general category of extrapolation/idealization processes (and I am confused and dismayed how rarely I see this mentioned in these conversations nowadays).
Yeah.
Okay, I actually also have a “wtf guys why aren’t we talking about CEV more?” post lined up. I think I didn’t bring it up in this context because I’m treating the AI 2040 Plan A desiderata to include “it can be explained succinctly in a paragraph that the average pretty smart human will read and say ‘okay I see how that would be fair/reasonable/good.’”
I think it would be great if we had such a paragraph for CEV, although I don’t currently.