Even ignoring the above problem, I’m confused why it’s valuable to build up a “real tradition” among LW users, given that the wider unilateralist curse problem that our world faces can’t possibly be solved by LW users having such a tradition.
A few points.
First, I don’t think it’s clear that in the Rationalist / EA community, there is enough reinforcement of this, and I routinely see issues with people “going rogue” and unilaterally engaging in activities that others have warned them would be dangerous, net negative, etc.
Second, it’s valuable even as an exemplar; we should be able to say that there is such a community, and that they are capable of exercising at least this minimal level of restraint.
Third, I think it’s clear that in the next decade the number of people in the Rationalist-sphere that are in actual positions of (relatively significant) power will continue to grow, and we have already seen some such people emerge in government and in the world of NGOs. For AI, in particular, there are many people who have significant influence in making decisions that could significantly affect Humanity’s future. Their active (i.e. passive) participation in this seems likely to at least give them a better understanding of what is needed when they are faced with these choices.
I think these are good points. (I thought of points 2 and 3 myself after writing my comment, but refrained from posting them due to not wanting to accidentally straw-man supporters of the button game/tradition, in case they had stronger arguments in mind.) I’m curious about examples of 1, if you have any in mind that you can share.
Re: examples of point #1, I don’t think that shaming in this forum is productive—it’s polarizing and stigmatizing rather than helpful. But I do know of several individuals and a couple organizations which are guilty of this, each repeatedly.
I do think that people should be more willing to personally / privately respond if someone does something, and I have done so in several specific cases where someone decided on a unilateralist approach that I thought was damaging.
A few points.
First, I don’t think it’s clear that in the Rationalist / EA community, there is enough reinforcement of this, and I routinely see issues with people “going rogue” and unilaterally engaging in activities that others have warned them would be dangerous, net negative, etc.
Second, it’s valuable even as an exemplar; we should be able to say that there is such a community, and that they are capable of exercising at least this minimal level of restraint.
Third, I think it’s clear that in the next decade the number of people in the Rationalist-sphere that are in actual positions of (relatively significant) power will continue to grow, and we have already seen some such people emerge in government and in the world of NGOs. For AI, in particular, there are many people who have significant influence in making decisions that could significantly affect Humanity’s future. Their active (i.e. passive) participation in this seems likely to at least give them a better understanding of what is needed when they are faced with these choices.
I think these are good points. (I thought of points 2 and 3 myself after writing my comment, but refrained from posting them due to not wanting to accidentally straw-man supporters of the button game/tradition, in case they had stronger arguments in mind.) I’m curious about examples of 1, if you have any in mind that you can share.
Re: examples of point #1, I don’t think that shaming in this forum is productive—it’s polarizing and stigmatizing rather than helpful. But I do know of several individuals and a couple organizations which are guilty of this, each repeatedly.
I do think that people should be more willing to personally / privately respond if someone does something, and I have done so in several specific cases where someone decided on a unilateralist approach that I thought was damaging.