I’ve found it’s often actually better for group processing of ideas-and-emotions for there to be nonzero ranting about what you really feel in your heart even if not fully accurate. (This is also very risky, and having it be net-positive is tricky, but, often when I see people trying to dance around the venting you can feel it leaking through the veneer of politeness)
I think Thomas’s comment is slightly exaggerated but… idk basically correct in overall thrust, and an important gear? (I agree whenever you say “this group thinks X”, obviously lots of people in that group will not think X)
While the comment paints people with a negative brush, it does paint a bunch of different people in a negative brush, such that it’s more about painting the overall dynamic in a negative light than the individual people, in my reading.
I definitely agree it is not the best kind of comment Thomas could have written and I hope it’s not representative of the average quality of comment in this discussion, it just seemed to me the LW mod reactions to it were extreme and slightly isolated-demand-for-rigor-y.
(I do want this thread to be one where overall people are some kind of politically careful, but I don’t actually have that strong a guess as to what the best norms are. I view this as sort of the prelude to a later conversation with a better-set container)
I agree that ranting and emotional writing is part of a healthy processing of information in humans. Insofar as someone is ranting imprecisely and recklessly about groups and their attitudes, when trying to understand local politics, I wish that some care is taken to note that it’s not the default standard for comments, that it’s more likely to produce inaccuracies and be misleading, rather than to walk straight into it seemingly unaware of the line being crossed. It’s the standard thing about line crossing: the problem isn’t in choosing to cross the line, it’s in seemingly not being aware that there is a line at all.
I was aware there is some line but thought it was “don’t ignite a conversation that derails this one” rather than “don’t say inaccurate things about groups”, which is why I listed lots of groups rather than one and declined to list actively contentious topics like timelines, IABIED reviews, or Matthew Barnett’s opinions
A few reasons I don’t mind the Thomas comment:
I’ve found it’s often actually better for group processing of ideas-and-emotions for there to be nonzero ranting about what you really feel in your heart even if not fully accurate. (This is also very risky, and having it be net-positive is tricky, but, often when I see people trying to dance around the venting you can feel it leaking through the veneer of politeness)
I think Thomas’s comment is slightly exaggerated but… idk basically correct in overall thrust, and an important gear? (I agree whenever you say “this group thinks X”, obviously lots of people in that group will not think X)
While the comment paints people with a negative brush, it does paint a bunch of different people in a negative brush, such that it’s more about painting the overall dynamic in a negative light than the individual people, in my reading.
I definitely agree it is not the best kind of comment Thomas could have written and I hope it’s not representative of the average quality of comment in this discussion, it just seemed to me the LW mod reactions to it were extreme and slightly isolated-demand-for-rigor-y.
(I do want this thread to be one where overall people are some kind of politically careful, but I don’t actually have that strong a guess as to what the best norms are. I view this as sort of the prelude to a later conversation with a better-set container)
I think the dynamic Thomas pointed to is more helpful and accurate than the specifics, which seem to me like inaccurate glosses.
I agree that ranting and emotional writing is part of a healthy processing of information in humans. Insofar as someone is ranting imprecisely and recklessly about groups and their attitudes, when trying to understand local politics, I wish that some care is taken to note that it’s not the default standard for comments, that it’s more likely to produce inaccuracies and be misleading, rather than to walk straight into it seemingly unaware of the line being crossed. It’s the standard thing about line crossing: the problem isn’t in choosing to cross the line, it’s in seemingly not being aware that there is a line at all.
I was aware there is some line but thought it was “don’t ignite a conversation that derails this one” rather than “don’t say inaccurate things about groups”, which is why I listed lots of groups rather than one and declined to list actively contentious topics like timelines, IABIED reviews, or Matthew Barnett’s opinions