I have a genuine question about RNA vaccines (not vaccination in general, RNA vaccines). It’s a concern about vaccine safety, and I post it hidden here because at any other place the result would be people freaking out and getting less likely to get vaccinated if there is actually no reason to be concerned.
First a bit of context. I had a conversation with a friend of my parents. He is a researcher in biology/genetic/aging at the CNRS in France, and as far as I can tell pretty good at his job (based on his career so far).
We discussed RNA vaccines, and he was saying this: 1) The Pfizer/Modena vaccine have obviously no short term side effect so we should just vaccine all old people asap. 2) for younger people it’s less clear, because of the following possibility: RNA can obviously enter the cell nucleus (that’s RNA function). What is less-well known is that RNA and DNA can sometimes mix. This mean that viral RNA from the vaccine has a chance to insert itself randomly into your DNA. In the short term this is not a problem, but in the long term this means some chances to develop some sort of cancer (or sterility problems) - which may be a problem if young people in their twenties/thirties get a lot of cancer ten years from now.
In my model this is not really a problem, because the odds of developing a cancer due to the vaccine are still very low and the benefit from vaccinations are very high and immediate (and you protect others). But I’d like to know if some of you have sources on this question or have thought about the problem.
(note: he has a long experience of targeting some gene in flies and seeing some random mutations pop out on non-targeted areas—just to say that he knows his stuff about genetics).
Above you write: “ RNA can obviously enter the cell nucleus (that’s RNA function). ”
but I believe this is not true.
Normally, mRNA is produced in the nucleus and then is transported out of the nucleus. It is then turned into protein by ribosomes, which reside outside the nucleus.
My understanding is that mRNA from mRNA vaccines is not thought to enter the cell nucleus—and certainly this is not necessary for their function.
That doesn’t distinguish the new vaccines from traditional attenuated vaccines, which also inject nucleic acid into the cell, although inactivated vaccines don’t. Or, for that matter, getting infected. Every year I get a couple of colds, where way more cells get way more nucleic acid than in vaccine.
That was my initial reaction too, but then I thought that when a virus enter a cell (or a traditional attenuated vaccines), it kills the cell when going out, so any mutation that could happen to the infected cell is irrelevant since the cell is destroyed. With a RNA vaccine the cell is not killed (unless it is then killed by our immune system ?).
I have a genuine question about RNA vaccines (not vaccination in general, RNA vaccines). It’s a concern about vaccine safety, and I post it hidden here because at any other place the result would be people freaking out and getting less likely to get vaccinated if there is actually no reason to be concerned.
First a bit of context. I had a conversation with a friend of my parents. He is a researcher in biology/genetic/aging at the CNRS in France, and as far as I can tell pretty good at his job (based on his career so far).
We discussed RNA vaccines, and he was saying this:
1) The Pfizer/Modena vaccine have obviously no short term side effect so we should just vaccine all old people asap.
2) for younger people it’s less clear, because of the following possibility:
RNA can obviously enter the cell nucleus (that’s RNA function). What is less-well known is that RNA and DNA can sometimes mix. This mean that viral RNA from the vaccine has a chance to insert itself randomly into your DNA. In the short term this is not a problem, but in the long term this means some chances to develop some sort of cancer (or sterility problems) - which may be a problem if young people in their twenties/thirties get a lot of cancer ten years from now.
In my model this is not really a problem, because the odds of developing a cancer due to the vaccine are still very low and the benefit from vaccinations are very high and immediate (and you protect others). But I’d like to know if some of you have sources on this question or have thought about the problem.
(note: he has a long experience of targeting some gene in flies and seeing some random mutations pop out on non-targeted areas—just to say that he knows his stuff about genetics).
(note 2: also thanks Zvi for your great posts !)
Above you write: “ RNA can obviously enter the cell nucleus (that’s RNA function). ”
but I believe this is not true.
Normally, mRNA is produced in the nucleus and then is transported out of the nucleus. It is then turned into protein by ribosomes, which reside outside the nucleus.
My understanding is that mRNA from mRNA vaccines is not thought to enter the cell nucleus—and certainly this is not necessary for their function.
That doesn’t distinguish the new vaccines from traditional attenuated vaccines, which also inject nucleic acid into the cell, although inactivated vaccines don’t. Or, for that matter, getting infected. Every year I get a couple of colds, where way more cells get way more nucleic acid than in vaccine.
That was my initial reaction too, but then I thought that when a virus enter a cell (or a traditional attenuated vaccines), it kills the cell when going out, so any mutation that could happen to the infected cell is irrelevant since the cell is destroyed. With a RNA vaccine the cell is not killed (unless it is then killed by our immune system ?).
I don’t believe that every infected cell is killed.
Minor nitpick, but it’s RNA vaccines in English (or mRNA). I take it ARN is the French word order.
Thanks—corrected.