I don’t know what the stats are. I would guess the frequency of serious negative outcomes is about 1/10000 to <1/100, depending on the type of meditation that’s done & factors relating to susceptibility to mental illness etc. This is based off anecdotal evidence of some friends not doing too well after meditation and the fact that whenever I’ve pressed people on this topic, they admit that meditation can seriously damage you for prolonged periods of time, as well as reports I’ve heard from other people. So some of that range is just pure uncertainty.
As for 45 minutes a day, I was trying to give a sense of roughly when things start getting dangerous. From what I understand, 10 minutes a day for indefinite periods of time is basically safe. Substantially higher than that, say 30 minutes a day, can cause harm but I’m uncertain if it requires years, months or maybe even weeks. And if you’re encouraing people to meditate marginally more, well, 20 or 30 minutes it won’t change things that much, right? Maybe, maybe not.
Meditating in a multi-day retreat for many hours a day is where risks start getting pretty high as far as I can tell. The risks are closer to the 1⁄100 range I was talking about, but again, I don’t have hard stats backing this up. I’m talking about near-permanently screwing your life up here by the way.
Also, all of this is modualted by things like genetic factors, history of mental illness, where you are in life right now etc. And it is also dependant on what practice you use. Some practices of meditation supposedly have predictable dark periods where the only way out is through. Others are more benign. And it can be unclear what things get dangerous and when if you’re practicing by yourself without the aid of a community that’s battle tested their practices and knows what to watch out for.
I say all these things because I’m interested in meditation for reasons related to a history of pain, pain-induced trauma, all sorts of damaged reasoning and sheer curiousty. Meditation, amongst other cognitive techs, looks like it may help me with that. I believe that because I’ve personally experience how much cognitive damage a person can inflict on themselves, I’ve seen people close to me do so as well. And I’ve practiced techniques that sure look like they’re improving, or rather restoring, my ability to reason by a great deal. Maybe meditation practices can offer things just as impactful as my current techs.
But for people like me, i.e. at a high-risk for mental illness which I believe is more common on LW, meditation can pose serious dangers and its risks may outweigh its benifits. So I stick to a safe <10 minutes a day, and am on the lookout for feelings that I would normally want to stop but might convince myself to push past because maybe I’m just supposed to feel weird. Afterall, isn’t meditation meant to result in strange, inexplicable insights? Well, maybe. But I don’t have the expertise to know what’s safe and what’s not, so I’d rather take things slowly and cautiously. As advised by the protocol in this book which appears to be treating meditation with at least the paranoia I think it deserves.
For people contemplating entering a period of serious practice what I typically ask about is whether they would be okay losing/destabilizing their job and primary relationships (romantic, friends, family). Not okay in the sense of it wouldn’t suck emotionally, but they would be basically secure (financial runway, other friends/teachers to turn to for advice, mental health history and medications, etc.) and be able to make it through to the other side if it took up to 18 months.
I don’t know what the stats are. I would guess the frequency of serious negative outcomes is about 1/10000 to <1/100, depending on the type of meditation that’s done & factors relating to susceptibility to mental illness etc. This is based off anecdotal evidence of some friends not doing too well after meditation and the fact that whenever I’ve pressed people on this topic, they admit that meditation can seriously damage you for prolonged periods of time, as well as reports I’ve heard from other people. So some of that range is just pure uncertainty.
As for 45 minutes a day, I was trying to give a sense of roughly when things start getting dangerous. From what I understand, 10 minutes a day for indefinite periods of time is basically safe. Substantially higher than that, say 30 minutes a day, can cause harm but I’m uncertain if it requires years, months or maybe even weeks. And if you’re encouraing people to meditate marginally more, well, 20 or 30 minutes it won’t change things that much, right? Maybe, maybe not.
Meditating in a multi-day retreat for many hours a day is where risks start getting pretty high as far as I can tell. The risks are closer to the 1⁄100 range I was talking about, but again, I don’t have hard stats backing this up. I’m talking about near-permanently screwing your life up here by the way.
Also, all of this is modualted by things like genetic factors, history of mental illness, where you are in life right now etc. And it is also dependant on what practice you use. Some practices of meditation supposedly have predictable dark periods where the only way out is through. Others are more benign. And it can be unclear what things get dangerous and when if you’re practicing by yourself without the aid of a community that’s battle tested their practices and knows what to watch out for.
I say all these things because I’m interested in meditation for reasons related to a history of pain, pain-induced trauma, all sorts of damaged reasoning and sheer curiousty. Meditation, amongst other cognitive techs, looks like it may help me with that. I believe that because I’ve personally experience how much cognitive damage a person can inflict on themselves, I’ve seen people close to me do so as well. And I’ve practiced techniques that sure look like they’re improving, or rather restoring, my ability to reason by a great deal. Maybe meditation practices can offer things just as impactful as my current techs.
But for people like me, i.e. at a high-risk for mental illness which I believe is more common on LW, meditation can pose serious dangers and its risks may outweigh its benifits. So I stick to a safe <10 minutes a day, and am on the lookout for feelings that I would normally want to stop but might convince myself to push past because maybe I’m just supposed to feel weird. Afterall, isn’t meditation meant to result in strange, inexplicable insights? Well, maybe. But I don’t have the expertise to know what’s safe and what’s not, so I’d rather take things slowly and cautiously. As advised by the protocol in this book which appears to be treating meditation with at least the paranoia I think it deserves.
For people contemplating entering a period of serious practice what I typically ask about is whether they would be okay losing/destabilizing their job and primary relationships (romantic, friends, family). Not okay in the sense of it wouldn’t suck emotionally, but they would be basically secure (financial runway, other friends/teachers to turn to for advice, mental health history and medications, etc.) and be able to make it through to the other side if it took up to 18 months.