Yes, it’s pretty much impossible to tell a lie without hurting other people, or at least interfering with them; that’s the point of lying, after all. But right now we’re talking about the harm one does to oneself by lying; I submit that there needn’t be any.
One distinction I don’t know if it matters, but many discussions fail to mention at all, is the distinction between telling a lie and maintaining it/keeping the secret. Many of the epistemic arguments seem to disappear if you’ve previously made it clear you might lie to someone, you intend to tell the truth a few weeks down the line, and if pressed or questioned you confess and tell the actual truth rather than try to cover it with further lies.
Edit: also, have some kind of oat and special circumstance where you will in fact never lie, but precommit to only use it for important things or give it a cost in some way so you won’t be pressed to give it for everything.
I think you and fezziwig aren’t disagreeing. You’re saying as an empirical matter that lying can (and maybe often does) harm the liar. He’s just saying that it doesn’t necessarily harm the liar, and indeed it may well be that lies are often a net benefit. These are compatible claims.
Telling a lie has it’s own problems, as I discuss here.
Yes, it’s pretty much impossible to tell a lie without hurting other people, or at least interfering with them; that’s the point of lying, after all. But right now we’re talking about the harm one does to oneself by lying; I submit that there needn’t be any.
One distinction I don’t know if it matters, but many discussions fail to mention at all, is the distinction between telling a lie and maintaining it/keeping the secret. Many of the epistemic arguments seem to disappear if you’ve previously made it clear you might lie to someone, you intend to tell the truth a few weeks down the line, and if pressed or questioned you confess and tell the actual truth rather than try to cover it with further lies.
Edit: also, have some kind of oat and special circumstance where you will in fact never lie, but precommit to only use it for important things or give it a cost in some way so you won’t be pressed to give it for everything.
Did you even read the comment I linked to? It’s whole point was about the harm you do to yourself and your cause by lying.
I think you and fezziwig aren’t disagreeing. You’re saying as an empirical matter that lying can (and maybe often does) harm the liar. He’s just saying that it doesn’t necessarily harm the liar, and indeed it may well be that lies are often a net benefit. These are compatible claims.