I evidently missed this post when it appeared. Nonetheless I’ll put some thoughts on the record:
#7. Although AlexU expressed it a bit more rudely than I would have, I basically share his opinion. This is somewhat delicate, because, as you can see, I do move in circles where vegetarians are not uncommon. Nevertheless, I am allergic to sanctimony in all its forms, and vegetarianism does strike me as a form of sanctimony. In particular, even quietly practiced private vegetarianism seems more effective as a social signaling device than as a means of actually relieving any animal suffering. (Compare with personal conservation as a form of environmentalism: it simply doesn’t make enough of a difference.)
My feelings on this are somewhat complex, to be sure. I’m certainly not unmoved by the plight of suffering animals, and I have to admit that contact with vegetarians probably brings this issue to a more prominent position in my consciousness than it would otherwise have occupied. (Though I still occasionally eat veal, I don’t do so without a momentary twinge as I think of the horrid conditions of the veal calf.) But I can’t help thinking that the efforts of my vegetarian friends would be better spent directly lobbying the meat industry to change its ways, or supporting the development of synthetic meat. This is not to say that some don’t already do these things, of course. But these are in any case the things that really matter; personally abstaining from meat “on ethical grounds” is hardly more than a feel-good gesture.
As a side note, where do some people (including, apparently, the author of the post) get the idea that fish meat somehow isn’t really meat? It’s one thing for Christian churches to make such a mistake, seeing as how their traditions were established in times of utter zoological ignorance; but surely we here are capable of recognizing that the morally relevant category here is not the nature of an animal’s habitat (terrestrial versus aquatic) but rather that of its nervous system (whether it is capable of “suffering” as we humans would understand it). On this score, fish, being vertebrates, would seem to fall into a similar classification to that of many land animals considered morally problematic.
Sanctimony is feigned or hypocritical righteousness or piety. Could you explain why this describes vegetarianism? Of course some individual vegetarians are sanctimonious, but you seem to be generalizing to the practice of vegetarianism.
You suggest “lobbying the meat industry to change its ways, or supporting the development of synthetic meat.” Could you tell me more specifically how to do that? I might try it. Regardless, I don’t see how that makes it a worse idea to reduce my meat consumption.
I don’t think anyone’s claiming that fish meat isn’t really meat. It’s just a kind of meat I eat. I explained in the thread of my data point why I make the distinction.
I evidently missed this post when it appeared. Nonetheless I’ll put some thoughts on the record:
#7. Although AlexU expressed it a bit more rudely than I would have, I basically share his opinion. This is somewhat delicate, because, as you can see, I do move in circles where vegetarians are not uncommon. Nevertheless, I am allergic to sanctimony in all its forms, and vegetarianism does strike me as a form of sanctimony. In particular, even quietly practiced private vegetarianism seems more effective as a social signaling device than as a means of actually relieving any animal suffering. (Compare with personal conservation as a form of environmentalism: it simply doesn’t make enough of a difference.)
My feelings on this are somewhat complex, to be sure. I’m certainly not unmoved by the plight of suffering animals, and I have to admit that contact with vegetarians probably brings this issue to a more prominent position in my consciousness than it would otherwise have occupied. (Though I still occasionally eat veal, I don’t do so without a momentary twinge as I think of the horrid conditions of the veal calf.) But I can’t help thinking that the efforts of my vegetarian friends would be better spent directly lobbying the meat industry to change its ways, or supporting the development of synthetic meat. This is not to say that some don’t already do these things, of course. But these are in any case the things that really matter; personally abstaining from meat “on ethical grounds” is hardly more than a feel-good gesture.
As a side note, where do some people (including, apparently, the author of the post) get the idea that fish meat somehow isn’t really meat? It’s one thing for Christian churches to make such a mistake, seeing as how their traditions were established in times of utter zoological ignorance; but surely we here are capable of recognizing that the morally relevant category here is not the nature of an animal’s habitat (terrestrial versus aquatic) but rather that of its nervous system (whether it is capable of “suffering” as we humans would understand it). On this score, fish, being vertebrates, would seem to fall into a similar classification to that of many land animals considered morally problematic.
Sanctimony is feigned or hypocritical righteousness or piety. Could you explain why this describes vegetarianism? Of course some individual vegetarians are sanctimonious, but you seem to be generalizing to the practice of vegetarianism.
You suggest “lobbying the meat industry to change its ways, or supporting the development of synthetic meat.” Could you tell me more specifically how to do that? I might try it. Regardless, I don’t see how that makes it a worse idea to reduce my meat consumption.
I don’t think anyone’s claiming that fish meat isn’t really meat. It’s just a kind of meat I eat. I explained in the thread of my data point why I make the distinction.