For what it’s worth, I don’t think su3su2u1′s reviews were a pile of crap. I think they pointed out many real problems, not just with the individual details, but with the way HPMOR misrepresents scientific thinking as a whole. Here’s an example (Ch. 96) where he just couldn’t take it anymore:
Hiding from Death’s shadow is not defeating Death itself. The Resurrection Stone couldn’t really bring anyone back. The Elder Wand couldn’t protect you from old age.
HOW THE FUCK DO YOU KNOW THE RESURRECTION STONE CAN’T BRING ANYONE BACK? HAVE YOU EVEN SEEN IT?
Step 1- assume that the resurrection stone doesn’t work because you can’t magically bring back the dead
Step 2- decide you want to magically resurrect the dead
Step 3- never revisit step 1.
SCIENCE!
GO INVESTIGATE THE DOORWAY TO THE AFTERLIFE! GO TALK TO PEOPLE ABOUT THE RESURRECTION STONE! DO SOME FUCKING RESEARCH! “I’m going to resurrect the dead by thinking really hard about how much death sucks and doing nothing else.“
I wonder if Eliezer would consider that legitimate criticism?
I think they pointed out many real problems, not just with the individual details, but with the way HPMOR misrepresents scientific thinking as a whole.
So, I think su3su2u1′s strongest point is that the “Slytherin! Just kidding, Ravenclaw!” applies just as well to the story as it does to Harry; you might think it’s about the application of science to magic, Harry thinks it’s about the application of science to magic, but it’s really not; it’s about rationality, and the methods of rationality. As one of Eliezer’s recent Facebook updates puts it:
In retrospect, one of the literary problems I ran into with Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality is that there was no clear signal until the final chapter of what the story was about.
And much of this is a meta-point, rather than explicit text: Harry, little professor that he is, isn’t good enough at rationality to avoid shooting himself in the foot, because knowing the concepts isn’t the same as living the methodology.
(I suspect that Eliezer agrees with a sanitized version of this criticism. To clarify, if I recall correctly, su3su2u1 identifies Yudkowsky as author as also being Slytherin, which seems to me to be its own discussion that could get prickly.)
Eliezer is certainly more Gryffindor/Slytherin than Ravenclaw/Hufflepuff, and so is HPMOR Harry :-)
I agree that the story was intended to be about rationality (and also science, judging from the tons of science references). What it actually ends up being about is another question. To me the main theme of HPMOR is examining the hero stereotype, and it does such a great job that I can forgive its other flaws.
For what it’s worth, I don’t think su3su2u1′s reviews were a pile of crap. I think they pointed out many real problems, not just with the individual details, but with the way HPMOR misrepresents scientific thinking as a whole. Here’s an example (Ch. 96) where he just couldn’t take it anymore:
I wonder if Eliezer would consider that legitimate criticism?
So, I think su3su2u1′s strongest point is that the “Slytherin! Just kidding, Ravenclaw!” applies just as well to the story as it does to Harry; you might think it’s about the application of science to magic, Harry thinks it’s about the application of science to magic, but it’s really not; it’s about rationality, and the methods of rationality. As one of Eliezer’s recent Facebook updates puts it:
And much of this is a meta-point, rather than explicit text: Harry, little professor that he is, isn’t good enough at rationality to avoid shooting himself in the foot, because knowing the concepts isn’t the same as living the methodology.
(I suspect that Eliezer agrees with a sanitized version of this criticism. To clarify, if I recall correctly, su3su2u1 identifies Yudkowsky as author as also being Slytherin, which seems to me to be its own discussion that could get prickly.)
Eliezer is certainly more Gryffindor/Slytherin than Ravenclaw/Hufflepuff, and so is HPMOR Harry :-)
I agree that the story was intended to be about rationality (and also science, judging from the tons of science references). What it actually ends up being about is another question. To me the main theme of HPMOR is examining the hero stereotype, and it does such a great job that I can forgive its other flaws.