From any given moral perspective, progress in one moral dimension will basically always amount to regression in another
In my life experience, this is the type of observation which has led me to try and come up with a concept of Social Physics. This is a decent low level example of how I believe Newtons third law of Motion “For every action there is an equal but opposite reaction” applies to social studies.
I think Newtons laws of motion apply well here to an idea of privilege, and I’m debating currently doing a top level post on my ideas.
I know this isn’t really what you’re looking for, but I couldn’t resist sharing Scott Alexander’s satirical essay “Newtonian Ethics”: It starts out like so:
We often refer to morality as being a force; for example, some charity is “a force for good” or some argument “has great moral force”. But which force is it?
Consider the possibility that it is gravity. In statements like “Sentencing guidelines should take into account the gravity of the offense”, the words “gravity” and “immorality” are used interchangeably. Gravitational language informs our moral discourse in other ways too: immoral people are described as “fallen”, sin is a “weight” upon the soul, and we worry about society undergoing moral “collapse”. So the argument from common usage (is best argument! is never wrong!) makes a strong case for an unexpected identity between morality and gravity similar to that between (for example) electricity and magnetism.
We can confirm this to the case by investigating inverse square laws. If morality is indeed an unusual form of gravitation, it will vary with the square of the distance between two objects.
Thank you, I do appreciate that. It’s an odd satire, because I think it is unintentionally correct, since the inverse square law arises in gravity basically because that is the relationship between the surface area of a sphere and the radius of that sphere.
Add social connections as an additional spacial dimension, and people’s morality will be observed to follow the inverse square law for approximately the same reason as gravity.
That is actually really helpful, thank you. I get a lot into how words are used, as sometimes it’s not so much the ‘things’ themselves which are the cause of disagreement, but rather the words used to describe our concepts of them in discussion. The concept of Gravity as a ‘Moral’ Force is a great example, one I’ve actually written about a little bit, actually around the same time as the post you’re referring too, a little after I believe.
My take is both similar and different, and I’m currently trying to work out how to explain it, as it seems to need something similar to the Sequences EY has put together, in order to show the logical progression of ideas I have. That’s a lot of work, so I’m trying to introduce the ideas in my comments on other peoples posts a bit at a time as it helps me compare my thinking with others. Going back and stitching my comments together into a ‘Sequence’ of sorts seems like a decent working model.
I put this to you though: Without having already made a name for myself in the fields associated with the LW community, without already having a literal job making money and doing the work, so as to be formally recognized as someone with competence in these areas of discourse, if my ideas turn out to matter in terms of pushing the sciences forward, instead of just meaning something interesting people discuss and then forget, what does it matter to me? Rationally speaking.
How would putting the time and energy into explaining things in a way that points to my hypothesis being correct actually affect my life? If I already had work in these fields, it would improve my status, and give me more opportunities for advancement, there would be people who would come to my aid if someone took my ideas and tried to pass them off as their own without giving me credit.
Since I don’t already work in these fields of Academia, Science, Legislation and the like, and I don’t have a community of those types of people waiting in the wings to come to my aid, none of those things seem likely to occur.
If my theories turn out correct, will that rocket me to fame? Give me a job (I’m currently unemployed and am attempting to work my out of close to 4 years of living in the shelter system) or get me scholarships to go to graduate school or get me federal funding to continue my work? Will it motivate some people to try and engage with my work more intentionally, offering help and productive assistance? Or will it just give people with social media savvy the opportunity to take the wheat for their own purposes and leave the chaff for me to try and barter with in the ‘sharing/information economy’ trap house that seems to have developed with the digital age?
Not that I won’t attempt to navigate this maze either way, as I’ve already pointed out in my post “Psyched Out” I have 20 years worth of sketchbooks and journals sitting in boxes in my living room I’ve never really tried to do anything with, and this is the first time I’ve tried putting my name to some of these ideas online. I’ve posted before under psuedo-nyms, but sporadically, trying to just get my ideas out there sort of hoping it would lead to something and maybe help other people.
It seems sometimes like engaging in online forums is sort of like gambling, and at this point rationally speaking, I’m at a point of ‘going all in’ and looking at the potential of either ‘getting lucky’ or ‘folding’. Not that online cred isn’t something of value, but I’m trying to make all my work matterdirectly to me, instead of just stringing together meaning in to more complex albeit insightful thoughts.
These are some of the thoughts I wonder about when I consider, rationally, what the actual payoffs for anyone attempting to engage with an online community are, instead of just waiting for the opportunity to try and go to graduate school and just work on their own ideas in a more supportive environment. Certainly, depending on the amount of energy and resources someone has available to them, the greater chance they will ‘bubble up’ to the top instead of sinking to the bottom. I do believe in something like Social Physics; but how do I work it out by myself so I can benefit from the info first, before other people have a chance to do so? It’s seems to be a moral question of sorts, looking for a rational answer.
In my life experience, this is the type of observation which has led me to try and come up with a concept of Social Physics. This is a decent low level example of how I believe Newtons third law of Motion “For every action there is an equal but opposite reaction” applies to social studies.
I think Newtons laws of motion apply well here to an idea of privilege, and I’m debating currently doing a top level post on my ideas.
Interesting take.
Thank you, and I’d definitely enjoy reading a Newtonian take on morality, when you’re ready to write it.
I know this isn’t really what you’re looking for, but I couldn’t resist sharing Scott Alexander’s satirical essay “Newtonian Ethics”: It starts out like so:
I somehow haven’t read this one.
Thank you, I do appreciate that. It’s an odd satire, because I think it is unintentionally correct, since the inverse square law arises in gravity basically because that is the relationship between the surface area of a sphere and the radius of that sphere.
Add social connections as an additional spacial dimension, and people’s morality will be observed to follow the inverse square law for approximately the same reason as gravity.
That is actually really helpful, thank you. I get a lot into how words are used, as sometimes it’s not so much the ‘things’ themselves which are the cause of disagreement, but rather the words used to describe our concepts of them in discussion. The concept of Gravity as a ‘Moral’ Force is a great example, one I’ve actually written about a little bit, actually around the same time as the post you’re referring too, a little after I believe.
My take is both similar and different, and I’m currently trying to work out how to explain it, as it seems to need something similar to the Sequences EY has put together, in order to show the logical progression of ideas I have. That’s a lot of work, so I’m trying to introduce the ideas in my comments on other peoples posts a bit at a time as it helps me compare my thinking with others. Going back and stitching my comments together into a ‘Sequence’ of sorts seems like a decent working model.
I put this to you though: Without having already made a name for myself in the fields associated with the LW community, without already having a literal job making money and doing the work, so as to be formally recognized as someone with competence in these areas of discourse, if my ideas turn out to matter in terms of pushing the sciences forward, instead of just meaning something interesting people discuss and then forget, what does it matter to me? Rationally speaking.How would putting the time and energy into explaining things in a way that points to my hypothesis being correct actually affect my life? If I already had work in these fields, it would improve my status, and give me more opportunities for advancement, there would be people who would come to my aid if someone took my ideas and tried to pass them off as their own without giving me credit.Since I don’t already work in these fields of Academia, Science, Legislation and the like, and I don’t have a community of those types of people waiting in the wings to come to my aid, none of those things seem likely to occur.If my theories turn out correct, will that rocket me to fame? Give me a job (I’m currently unemployed and am attempting to work my out of close to 4 years of living in the shelter system) or get me scholarships to go to graduate school or get me federal funding to continue my work? Will it motivate some people to try and engage with my work more intentionally, offering help and productive assistance? Or will it just give people with social media savvy the opportunity to take the wheat for their own purposes and leave the chaff for me to try and barter with in the ‘sharing/information economy’ trap house that seems to have developed with the digital age?Not that I won’t attempt to navigate this maze either way, as I’ve already pointed out in my post “Psyched Out” I have 20 years worth of sketchbooks and journals sitting in boxes in my living room I’ve never really tried to do anything with, and this is the first time I’ve tried putting my name to some of these ideas online. I’ve posted before under psuedo-nyms, but sporadically, trying to just get my ideas out there sort of hoping it would lead to something and maybe help other people.It seems sometimes like engaging in online forums is sort of like gambling, and at this point rationally speaking, I’m at a point of ‘going all in’ and looking at the potential of either ‘getting lucky’ or ‘folding’. Not that online cred isn’t something of value, but I’m trying to make all my workmatterdirectlyto me, instead of just stringing together meaning in to more complex albeit insightfulthoughts.These are some of the thoughts I wonder about when I consider, rationally, what the actual payoffs for anyone attempting to engage with an online community are, instead of just waiting for the opportunity to try and go to graduate school and just work on their own ideas in a more supportive environment. Certainly, depending on the amount of energy and resources someone has available to them, the greater chance they will ‘bubble up’ to the top instead of sinking to the bottom. I do believe in something like Social Physics; but how do I work it out by myself so I can benefit from the info first, before other people have a chance to do so? It’s seems to be a moral question of sorts, looking for a rational answer.BTW, sorry for the extraneous detail. Things have been stressful lately.