Nihilism is like a utility function where everything is set to the value zero… The thing about a nihilistic mindset is that you can’t really argue your way out of it
I agree that nihilism is self-consistent, but ironically my usual heuristic is often an argument based on the fact that nihilism has everything set to zero. The general idea once I start feeling awful and like I could just act awful, is noting the fact that, even as I feel like this, I’m still mostly not being awful. Noting my habits that I do [like going to class or hanging out with friends] despite my feeling of ‘not caring’ help argue my way out by claiming “there’s no way I have everything set to zero value in my mind; it’s shown in what I’m doing. If everything really was set to zero, I wouldn’t be doing anything at all!” So I argue my way out by saying “sure, nihilism is self-consistent, but so what? I’m clearly not doing that, so it isn’t my mindset.”
However, I may try keeping in store one of the other heuristics, as mine doesn’t always work. My most common pitfall: “not caring” → “gloomy mood” → “noting I’m lashing out just a tad” → “only thing I care about is not making people upset (unfair to them for me to just lash out based on mood)” → “noting gloomy mood again, and thinking it upsets people” → repeat 3,4,5 as death spiral down. It usually leads to avoiding the one thing that could help get over it faster: other people.
My most common pitfall: “not caring” → “gloomy mood” → “noting I’m lashing out just a tad” → “only thing I care about is not making people upset (unfair to them for me to just lash out based on mood)” → “noting gloomy mood again, and thinking it upsets people” → repeat 3,4,5 as death spiral down.
I’m actually doing something similar at a macro level right now. I’ve kind of spiralled myself into a corner: I get negatively triggered by observing certain normal social interactions (among other people), but I refuse to take the resulting bad mood out on my friends and it’s strong enough that I have trouble supressing it. Since I don’t know how to remove the trigger itself, I’ve just been avoiding situations where it could come up … leading to more isolation, more bad moods, etc.
Alternate outlets, like Nancy said, are always good. Have you also considered discussing the triggers with your friends, or would that be to far removed from social norms?
I’d suggest the “they don’t really know better” thought about social norms. After all, not many even think about why we do what we do [when it comes to social interaction], so one can’t exactly expect them to act in a way one would consider much better yet. That’s sometimes how I diffuse people acting in ways that trigger negative reactions in me. Just watch out for a sense of arrogance that may try to work its way in.
Have you also considered discussing the triggers with your friends, or would that be to far removed from social norms?
I just noticed I never responded to this part. I’ve discussed it a little bit; some people know enough of the history to already understand what’s going on, and some I’ve explained it to because they asked and to get it off my shoulders. Someone offered me a good metaphor for it:
People restrain our behavior in front of strangers. We don’t talk about very personal things, or very suggestive things, or very nitpicky things, because we don’t know how they’ll react. As we get closer to the ones who become our friends, it becomes more okay to open up and share more.
What happened to me is as if that switch got reset, but only on my end—so I became really uncomfortable seeing and hearing things that my close friends had every reason to believe I’d be comfortable with. I really didn’t want to ask them to treat me like a stranger! That seemed more likely to damage the relationship in the long-term than just backing off for a while would.
It’s gotten a little bit better recently; I’m working on unwiring the trigger that makes me want to back off so much. This involves some trial and error, but at least it’s progress.
I’d suggest the “they don’t really know better” thought about social norms.
The trouble is that they’re not violating any. Nobody’s doing anything wrong, it’s just me overreacting. It’s not this, but imagine if you cringed every time you saw two people shake hands. It’s hardly reasonable to ask them to stop doing that around you, but it’s also really hard to avoid being around.
imagine if you cringed every time you saw two people shake hands. It’s hardly reasonable to ask them to stop doing that around you, but it’s also really hard to avoid being around.
Positive Bias, you strike again. I hadn’t considered the idea that nothing is really wrong. I recommend the writing outlet, so you can figure out what it is that bothers you. If it’s really nothing, you may have an Ugh Field to deal with, and writing it out should help notice the issue.
I agree that nihilism is self-consistent, but ironically my usual heuristic is often an argument based on the fact that nihilism has everything set to zero. The general idea once I start feeling awful and like I could just act awful, is noting the fact that, even as I feel like this, I’m still mostly not being awful. Noting my habits that I do [like going to class or hanging out with friends] despite my feeling of ‘not caring’ help argue my way out by claiming “there’s no way I have everything set to zero value in my mind; it’s shown in what I’m doing. If everything really was set to zero, I wouldn’t be doing anything at all!” So I argue my way out by saying “sure, nihilism is self-consistent, but so what? I’m clearly not doing that, so it isn’t my mindset.”
However, I may try keeping in store one of the other heuristics, as mine doesn’t always work. My most common pitfall: “not caring” → “gloomy mood” → “noting I’m lashing out just a tad” → “only thing I care about is not making people upset (unfair to them for me to just lash out based on mood)” → “noting gloomy mood again, and thinking it upsets people” → repeat 3,4,5 as death spiral down. It usually leads to avoiding the one thing that could help get over it faster: other people.
On a less introverted note, awesome post!
I’m actually doing something similar at a macro level right now. I’ve kind of spiralled myself into a corner: I get negatively triggered by observing certain normal social interactions (among other people), but I refuse to take the resulting bad mood out on my friends and it’s strong enough that I have trouble supressing it. Since I don’t know how to remove the trigger itself, I’ve just been avoiding situations where it could come up … leading to more isolation, more bad moods, etc.
Haven’t thought my way out of that one yet.
Have you tried writing about the trigger to see if you might have more ways of reacting to it than taking it out on your friends?
I have, and I’ve sorted out bits and pieces of it. Not so much that it doesn’t still bother me, but I think I’m making progress.
Alternate outlets, like Nancy said, are always good. Have you also considered discussing the triggers with your friends, or would that be to far removed from social norms?
I’d suggest the “they don’t really know better” thought about social norms. After all, not many even think about why we do what we do [when it comes to social interaction], so one can’t exactly expect them to act in a way one would consider much better yet. That’s sometimes how I diffuse people acting in ways that trigger negative reactions in me. Just watch out for a sense of arrogance that may try to work its way in.
I just noticed I never responded to this part. I’ve discussed it a little bit; some people know enough of the history to already understand what’s going on, and some I’ve explained it to because they asked and to get it off my shoulders. Someone offered me a good metaphor for it:
People restrain our behavior in front of strangers. We don’t talk about very personal things, or very suggestive things, or very nitpicky things, because we don’t know how they’ll react. As we get closer to the ones who become our friends, it becomes more okay to open up and share more.
What happened to me is as if that switch got reset, but only on my end—so I became really uncomfortable seeing and hearing things that my close friends had every reason to believe I’d be comfortable with. I really didn’t want to ask them to treat me like a stranger! That seemed more likely to damage the relationship in the long-term than just backing off for a while would.
It’s gotten a little bit better recently; I’m working on unwiring the trigger that makes me want to back off so much. This involves some trial and error, but at least it’s progress.
The trouble is that they’re not violating any. Nobody’s doing anything wrong, it’s just me overreacting. It’s not this, but imagine if you cringed every time you saw two people shake hands. It’s hardly reasonable to ask them to stop doing that around you, but it’s also really hard to avoid being around.
Positive Bias, you strike again. I hadn’t considered the idea that nothing is really wrong. I recommend the writing outlet, so you can figure out what it is that bothers you. If it’s really nothing, you may have an Ugh Field to deal with, and writing it out should help notice the issue.
I have a pretty good sense of its origins already. The phenomenon is not a mystery to me. Only how to remove it is.