The 2000-2021 VIX has averaged 19.7, sp500 annualized vol 18.1.
From a 2ndary source: “The mean of the realistic volatility risk premium since 2000 has been 11% of implied volatility, with a standard deviation of roughly 15%-points” from https://www.sr-sv.com/realistic-volatility-risk-premia/ . So 1/3 of the time the premia is outside [-4%,26%], which swamps a lot of vix info about true expect vol.
-60% would the worst draw down ever, the prior should be <<1%. However, 8 years have been above 30% since 1928 (9%), seems you’re using a non-symetric CI.
The reasoning for why there’d be such a drawdown is backwards in OP: because real rates are so low the returns for owning stocks has declined accordingly. If you expect 0% rates and no growth stocks are priced reasonably, yielding 4%/year more than bonds. Thinking in the level of rates not changes to rates makes more sense, since investments are based on current projected rates. A discounted cash flow analysis works regardless of how rates change year to year. Currently the 30yr is trading at 2.11% so real rates around the 0 bound is the consensus view.
The 2000-2021 VIX has averaged 19.7, sp500 annualized vol 18.1.
I think you’re trying to say something here like 18.1 ⇐ 19.7, therefore VIX (and by extension) options are expensive. This is an error. I explain more in detail here, but in short you’re comparing expected variance and expected volatility which aren’t the same thing.
From a 2ndary source: “The mean of the realistic volatility risk premium since 2000 has been 11% of implied volatility, with a standard deviation of roughly 15%-points” from https://www.sr-sv.com/realistic-volatility-risk-premia/ . So 1/3 of the time the premia is outside [-4%,26%], which swamps a lot of vix info about true expect vol.
I’m not going to look too closely at that, but anything which tries to say the VRP was solidly positive post 2015 just doesn’t gel with my understanding of that market. (For example). (Also, fwiw anyone who quotes changes in volatility in percentages should be treated with suspicion at best)
-60% would the worst draw down ever, the prior should be <<1%. However, 8 years have been above 30% since 1928 (9%), seems you’re using a non-symetric CI.
Yeah, it’s not symmetric, but I wasn’t the person who suggested it. All I’m saying is “OP says [interval] has probability 90%” “market says [interval] has probability 90%”.
The reasoning for why there’d be such a drawdown is backwards in OP: because real rates are so low the returns for owning stocks has declined accordingly. If you expect 0% rates and no growth stocks are priced reasonably, yielding 4%/year more than bonds. Thinking in the level of rates not changes to rates makes more sense, since investments are based on current projected rates. A discounted cash flow analysis works regardless of how rates change year to year. Currently the 30yr is trading at 2.11% so real rates around the 0 bound is the consensus view.
OP being my post of arunto’s?
There’s several things unclear with this paragraph though:
Stocks are currently ‘yielding’ 1.3% (dividend yield) or 3.9% (‘earnings’ yield). Not sure exactly what yield you think is 4% over bonds. (Or which maturity bond you’re considering).
“Thinking in the level of rates not changes to rates makes more sense, since investments are based on current projected rates.”. The forward curve is upward sloping, yes, but if arunto thinks rates are going to change higher than what the market forecasts that will definitely change the price of equities. “A discounted cash flow analysis works regardless of how rates change year to year.” Yes, but if you change the rates in your DCF you will change your price
“Currently the 30yr is trading at 2.11% so real rates around the 0 bound is the consensus view.”. Currently 30y real rates are −15bps after a steep sell-off after the start of the year. 30y real rates were as low as −60bps in December.
10y real rates are more like −75bps (up from −110bps in December).
“the 0 bound” is something people talk about in nominal space because the yield on cash is somewhere in that ballpark. (These days people generally think that figure should be around −50 to −100bps depending on which euro rates trader you speak to). For real rates there’s no particular reason to think there is any significant bound − 10y real rates in the US have been negative since the start of 2020; in the UK they’ve been negative since the early 2010s.
The 2000-2021 VIX has averaged 19.7, sp500 annualized vol 18.1.
From a 2ndary source: “The mean of the realistic volatility risk premium since 2000 has been 11% of implied volatility, with a standard deviation of roughly 15%-points” from https://www.sr-sv.com/realistic-volatility-risk-premia/ . So 1/3 of the time the premia is outside [-4%,26%], which swamps a lot of vix info about true expect vol.
-60% would the worst draw down ever, the prior should be <<1%. However, 8 years have been above 30% since 1928 (9%), seems you’re using a non-symetric CI.
The reasoning for why there’d be such a drawdown is backwards in OP: because real rates are so low the returns for owning stocks has declined accordingly. If you expect 0% rates and no growth stocks are priced reasonably, yielding 4%/year more than bonds. Thinking in the level of rates not changes to rates makes more sense, since investments are based on current projected rates. A discounted cash flow analysis works regardless of how rates change year to year. Currently the 30yr is trading at 2.11% so real rates around the 0 bound is the consensus view.
I think you’re trying to say something here like 18.1 ⇐ 19.7, therefore VIX (and by extension) options are expensive. This is an error. I explain more in detail here, but in short you’re comparing expected variance and expected volatility which aren’t the same thing.
I’m not going to look too closely at that, but anything which tries to say the VRP was solidly positive post 2015 just doesn’t gel with my understanding of that market. (For example). (Also, fwiw anyone who quotes changes in volatility in percentages should be treated with suspicion at best)
Yeah, it’s not symmetric, but I wasn’t the person who suggested it. All I’m saying is “OP says [interval] has probability 90%” “market says [interval] has probability 90%”.
OP being my post of arunto’s?
There’s several things unclear with this paragraph though:
Stocks are currently ‘yielding’ 1.3% (dividend yield) or 3.9% (‘earnings’ yield). Not sure exactly what yield you think is 4% over bonds. (Or which maturity bond you’re considering).
“Thinking in the level of rates not changes to rates makes more sense, since investments are based on current projected rates.”. The forward curve is upward sloping, yes, but if arunto thinks rates are going to change higher than what the market forecasts that will definitely change the price of equities. “A discounted cash flow analysis works regardless of how rates change year to year.” Yes, but if you change the rates in your DCF you will change your price
“Currently the 30yr is trading at 2.11% so real rates around the 0 bound is the consensus view.”. Currently 30y real rates are −15bps after a steep sell-off after the start of the year. 30y real rates were as low as −60bps in December.
10y real rates are more like −75bps (up from −110bps in December).
“the 0 bound” is something people talk about in nominal space because the yield on cash is somewhere in that ballpark. (These days people generally think that figure should be around −50 to −100bps depending on which euro rates trader you speak to). For real rates there’s no particular reason to think there is any significant bound − 10y real rates in the US have been negative since the start of 2020; in the UK they’ve been negative since the early 2010s.