Since we’re talking about impressions and pressures to say yes and the like, I prefer something like “I’d like to exchange numbers. Would that be all right?” This lets you take most of the risk in the interaction and makes your intentions clearer, while the “Do you want...” version asks the other person to express their preferences first and only implies your own.
And going one step further, it’s not about getting a phone number (or shouldn’t be). It’s about keeping the conversation going. So: “I’d like to keep this conversation going / talking with you / talking about this. How does that sound to you?” and if you get a positive response, then “Let’s exchange numbers” or “how can I find you on Facebook” is perfectly natural.
That’s not dark-artsy. It contextualizes your personal request as a personal request, thereby making it acceptable to refuse. Sort of the opposite, really.
It’s a lot like introducing an idea you have for working with someone as ‘a [potentially] unreasonable request’ - by saying it, you’re almost explicitly giving them permission to say ‘no’ to whatever comes next, and if they think it was perfectly reasonable then they go along and all you spent was 4 words.
It doesn’t -sound- dark artsy, and it doesn’t -feel- manipulative to the person on the other end, but the apparent significant of the leading question diffuses the relatively low significance of the second question. The question of why you asked for the phone number in this manner distracts them from the question of whether or not they really wanted to give it to you. (This only applies while it is an unorthodox approach, mind.)
That’s where the dark arts come in.
I recommend it anyways because, as you say, it gives them a comfortable way of saying no.
I think that hardly anyone is going to be so confused by the framing that they don’t think about the object level question, especially since the object level question is most often a gut matter where most of the difficulty arises from reading yourself, not generating the judgement itself. Taking the pressure off makes it all easier.
It’s a marginal effect, not a primary one; you couldn’t get a phone number out of somebody who doesn’t like you, but you might get one out of somebody who is near the threshold. Other effects from framing the question (such as signaling that you respect their right to say no, and therefore will respect it if they later decide they’d rather not be called by you) this way probably dominate the impact; but as somebody who grew up around manipulation, and have a natural and despised tendency towards it, manipulation is something I am rather paranoid about, and avoid as much as reasonably possible.
It won’t get me in trouble for manipulating. But you misestimate what’s going on: Such a strategy isn’t manipulation-minimizing. In fact it depends on some (positive) manipulation, trying to frame the question in a way that makes the other person more comfortable saying no. There’s also some negative manipulation going on, however, in that the framing -also- makes the other person less likely to say no, even if it is just at the marginal cases.
Effective manipulation doesn’t rely on changing another person’s thought processes, it relies on subverting them. Don’t make them into a person who will do X, be the person they would do X for/to.
Since we’re talking about impressions and pressures to say yes and the like, I prefer something like “I’d like to exchange numbers. Would that be all right?” This lets you take most of the risk in the interaction and makes your intentions clearer, while the “Do you want...” version asks the other person to express their preferences first and only implies your own.
And going one step further, it’s not about getting a phone number (or shouldn’t be). It’s about keeping the conversation going. So: “I’d like to keep this conversation going / talking with you / talking about this. How does that sound to you?” and if you get a positive response, then “Let’s exchange numbers” or “how can I find you on Facebook” is perfectly natural.
Your requests are -too- reasonable. They would make many people feel unreasonable for saying no.
Make people feel comfortable telling you no. For example, by asking first:
“May I ask you a rather personal question?”
Plus, it’s amusing. And doubly so if you freely volunteer the reason -why- you asked that question first.
A little dark-artsy, mind, but most of social interactions involve a little bit of that anyways.
That’s not dark-artsy. It contextualizes your personal request as a personal request, thereby making it acceptable to refuse. Sort of the opposite, really.
It’s a lot like introducing an idea you have for working with someone as ‘a [potentially] unreasonable request’ - by saying it, you’re almost explicitly giving them permission to say ‘no’ to whatever comes next, and if they think it was perfectly reasonable then they go along and all you spent was 4 words.
It doesn’t -sound- dark artsy, and it doesn’t -feel- manipulative to the person on the other end, but the apparent significant of the leading question diffuses the relatively low significance of the second question. The question of why you asked for the phone number in this manner distracts them from the question of whether or not they really wanted to give it to you. (This only applies while it is an unorthodox approach, mind.)
That’s where the dark arts come in.
I recommend it anyways because, as you say, it gives them a comfortable way of saying no.
I think that hardly anyone is going to be so confused by the framing that they don’t think about the object level question, especially since the object level question is most often a gut matter where most of the difficulty arises from reading yourself, not generating the judgement itself. Taking the pressure off makes it all easier.
It’s a marginal effect, not a primary one; you couldn’t get a phone number out of somebody who doesn’t like you, but you might get one out of somebody who is near the threshold. Other effects from framing the question (such as signaling that you respect their right to say no, and therefore will respect it if they later decide they’d rather not be called by you) this way probably dominate the impact; but as somebody who grew up around manipulation, and have a natural and despised tendency towards it, manipulation is something I am rather paranoid about, and avoid as much as reasonably possible.
But… this is the opposite of manipulation. How does making every effort to minimize manipulation get you in trouble for manipulating?
It won’t get me in trouble for manipulating. But you misestimate what’s going on: Such a strategy isn’t manipulation-minimizing. In fact it depends on some (positive) manipulation, trying to frame the question in a way that makes the other person more comfortable saying no. There’s also some negative manipulation going on, however, in that the framing -also- makes the other person less likely to say no, even if it is just at the marginal cases.
Effective manipulation doesn’t rely on changing another person’s thought processes, it relies on subverting them. Don’t make them into a person who will do X, be the person they would do X for/to.
Your definition of manipulation is so broad I think it loses all relevant meaning. Framing a question is a matter of clear communication.