That’s not dark-artsy. It contextualizes your personal request as a personal request, thereby making it acceptable to refuse. Sort of the opposite, really.
It’s a lot like introducing an idea you have for working with someone as ‘a [potentially] unreasonable request’ - by saying it, you’re almost explicitly giving them permission to say ‘no’ to whatever comes next, and if they think it was perfectly reasonable then they go along and all you spent was 4 words.
It doesn’t -sound- dark artsy, and it doesn’t -feel- manipulative to the person on the other end, but the apparent significant of the leading question diffuses the relatively low significance of the second question. The question of why you asked for the phone number in this manner distracts them from the question of whether or not they really wanted to give it to you. (This only applies while it is an unorthodox approach, mind.)
That’s where the dark arts come in.
I recommend it anyways because, as you say, it gives them a comfortable way of saying no.
I think that hardly anyone is going to be so confused by the framing that they don’t think about the object level question, especially since the object level question is most often a gut matter where most of the difficulty arises from reading yourself, not generating the judgement itself. Taking the pressure off makes it all easier.
It’s a marginal effect, not a primary one; you couldn’t get a phone number out of somebody who doesn’t like you, but you might get one out of somebody who is near the threshold. Other effects from framing the question (such as signaling that you respect their right to say no, and therefore will respect it if they later decide they’d rather not be called by you) this way probably dominate the impact; but as somebody who grew up around manipulation, and have a natural and despised tendency towards it, manipulation is something I am rather paranoid about, and avoid as much as reasonably possible.
It won’t get me in trouble for manipulating. But you misestimate what’s going on: Such a strategy isn’t manipulation-minimizing. In fact it depends on some (positive) manipulation, trying to frame the question in a way that makes the other person more comfortable saying no. There’s also some negative manipulation going on, however, in that the framing -also- makes the other person less likely to say no, even if it is just at the marginal cases.
Effective manipulation doesn’t rely on changing another person’s thought processes, it relies on subverting them. Don’t make them into a person who will do X, be the person they would do X for/to.
That’s not dark-artsy. It contextualizes your personal request as a personal request, thereby making it acceptable to refuse. Sort of the opposite, really.
It’s a lot like introducing an idea you have for working with someone as ‘a [potentially] unreasonable request’ - by saying it, you’re almost explicitly giving them permission to say ‘no’ to whatever comes next, and if they think it was perfectly reasonable then they go along and all you spent was 4 words.
It doesn’t -sound- dark artsy, and it doesn’t -feel- manipulative to the person on the other end, but the apparent significant of the leading question diffuses the relatively low significance of the second question. The question of why you asked for the phone number in this manner distracts them from the question of whether or not they really wanted to give it to you. (This only applies while it is an unorthodox approach, mind.)
That’s where the dark arts come in.
I recommend it anyways because, as you say, it gives them a comfortable way of saying no.
I think that hardly anyone is going to be so confused by the framing that they don’t think about the object level question, especially since the object level question is most often a gut matter where most of the difficulty arises from reading yourself, not generating the judgement itself. Taking the pressure off makes it all easier.
It’s a marginal effect, not a primary one; you couldn’t get a phone number out of somebody who doesn’t like you, but you might get one out of somebody who is near the threshold. Other effects from framing the question (such as signaling that you respect their right to say no, and therefore will respect it if they later decide they’d rather not be called by you) this way probably dominate the impact; but as somebody who grew up around manipulation, and have a natural and despised tendency towards it, manipulation is something I am rather paranoid about, and avoid as much as reasonably possible.
But… this is the opposite of manipulation. How does making every effort to minimize manipulation get you in trouble for manipulating?
It won’t get me in trouble for manipulating. But you misestimate what’s going on: Such a strategy isn’t manipulation-minimizing. In fact it depends on some (positive) manipulation, trying to frame the question in a way that makes the other person more comfortable saying no. There’s also some negative manipulation going on, however, in that the framing -also- makes the other person less likely to say no, even if it is just at the marginal cases.
Effective manipulation doesn’t rely on changing another person’s thought processes, it relies on subverting them. Don’t make them into a person who will do X, be the person they would do X for/to.
Your definition of manipulation is so broad I think it loses all relevant meaning. Framing a question is a matter of clear communication.