This appears to be a video of the incident, and he appears to be entirely silent and motionless. I’d say the grandparent poster’s skepticism is pretty much shot here.
Not necessarily, we don’t know when in the process he died. Also, he could have had extreme self-control even as he experienced pain, or he could be someone who naturally already had a very high amount of asymbolia. One might speculate that in a Buddhist culture people with already high levels of pain asymbolia or high pain tolerance might be more likely to become Buddhist monks or to become successful monks since it will seem to them (and to those around them) that they have progressed farther along the Eight-Fold path. All of that said, I agree that this evidence supports the notion that pain asymbolia can come from mental exercises.
I would think that someone with natural pain asymbolia could tell the difference, and notice that they had it even before they started meditation techniques. I wonder if Buddhist monasteries do some sort of test to screen out asymbolia, or check someone’s starting level. This seems analogous to the problem of Christians confusing schizophrenia with talking to a god, and needing to screen out people with mental disorders from monasteries.
Except that natural pain asymbolia seems to be much rarer than schizophrenia. Hmm. It looks to me like artificial pain asymbolia might be, in practice if not in theory, an effective cure for natural schizophrenia. Destroy the motivations behind delusions and you won’t have them even if you have an atypically strong propensity to.
In any case, one problem with comparing the two articles is that much of the risk from meditation seems to be at extended retreats, while the pro-yoga article seems to be about ordinary amounts of practice.
″. Regular group yoga classes are not recommended for patients with psychotic symptoms, but private yoga sessions with a qualified yoga instructor or yoga therapist can help alleviate symptoms and improve a schizophrenic patient’s quality of life.” from the pro-yoga article, seems to me to indicate the same sort of concern that the meditation article indicated. It certainly seems credible that high-intensity and novel experience, combined with poorly understood philosophy promoting something that sounds vaguely loss-of-affect style psychotic symptoms, might encourage the development of those symptoms in people inclined to develop them and even in some people not so inclined.
This appears to be a video of the incident, and he appears to be entirely silent and motionless. I’d say the grandparent poster’s skepticism is pretty much shot here.
Not necessarily, we don’t know when in the process he died. Also, he could have had extreme self-control even as he experienced pain, or he could be someone who naturally already had a very high amount of asymbolia. One might speculate that in a Buddhist culture people with already high levels of pain asymbolia or high pain tolerance might be more likely to become Buddhist monks or to become successful monks since it will seem to them (and to those around them) that they have progressed farther along the Eight-Fold path. All of that said, I agree that this evidence supports the notion that pain asymbolia can come from mental exercises.
I would think that someone with natural pain asymbolia could tell the difference, and notice that they had it even before they started meditation techniques. I wonder if Buddhist monasteries do some sort of test to screen out asymbolia, or check someone’s starting level. This seems analogous to the problem of Christians confusing schizophrenia with talking to a god, and needing to screen out people with mental disorders from monasteries.
Except that natural pain asymbolia seems to be much rarer than schizophrenia. Hmm. It looks to me like artificial pain asymbolia might be, in practice if not in theory, an effective cure for natural schizophrenia. Destroy the motivations behind delusions and you won’t have them even if you have an atypically strong propensity to.
I’ve heard that sitting meditation isn’t safe for schizophrenics (details about risks of meditation), but yoga is.
Maybe I’m reading too much into the subtleties of your phrasing, but I read those sources as contradicting each other, not as allowing fine deduction.
I’m not sure what you mean. “Fine deduction”?
In any case, one problem with comparing the two articles is that much of the risk from meditation seems to be at extended retreats, while the pro-yoga article seems to be about ordinary amounts of practice.
″. Regular group yoga classes are not recommended for patients with psychotic symptoms, but private yoga sessions with a qualified yoga instructor or yoga therapist can help alleviate symptoms and improve a schizophrenic patient’s quality of life.” from the pro-yoga article, seems to me to indicate the same sort of concern that the meditation article indicated. It certainly seems credible that high-intensity and novel experience, combined with poorly understood philosophy promoting something that sounds vaguely loss-of-affect style psychotic symptoms, might encourage the development of those symptoms in people inclined to develop them and even in some people not so inclined.
Yes, there are differences between the claims, so that both articles could be true, but most likely at least one is false.
What I meant by “fine deduction” is that to believe both, you must draw a very specific (ie, fine-grained) conclusion.
Yes, there are subtle differences between the claims, so that both articles could be true, but most likely at least one is false.