I was also wondering about this … but insofar as some of the apparently-concerning things discussed here are “normal in [zen?] monasteries”, this doesn’t seem like a positive signal about those monasteries. It seems to me like you somewhat disagree?
That depends on exactly which things we’re talking about, and how they end up affecting the people overall. Compare that militaries also practice extensive behavioral control, yet society is generally okay with this and many people who’ve served in the military are happy to have done so.
I mostly think the case for the military breaking you as a person is that the state has a legitimate use of violence case to make you become the type of person to be willing to sacrifice your agency and civilian moral instincts so you can literally and more efficiently kill for the greater good.
I’m not confident that this reason is good enough, but it currently seems more likely than not.
However, I don’t buy that other reasons to break people are sufficiently analogous (not saying the military is the only legitimate reason).
I was also wondering about this … but insofar as some of the apparently-concerning things discussed here are “normal in [zen?] monasteries”, this doesn’t seem like a positive signal about those monasteries. It seems to me like you somewhat disagree?
That depends on exactly which things we’re talking about, and how they end up affecting the people overall. Compare that militaries also practice extensive behavioral control, yet society is generally okay with this and many people who’ve served in the military are happy to have done so.
I mostly think the case for the military breaking you as a person is that the state has a legitimate use of violence case to make you become the type of person to be willing to sacrifice your agency and civilian moral instincts so you can literally and more efficiently kill for the greater good.
I’m not confident that this reason is good enough, but it currently seems more likely than not.
However, I don’t buy that other reasons to break people are sufficiently analogous (not saying the military is the only legitimate reason).