I think one point to draw from this is that people saying “this is for their own good” is very weak evidence. Like, even weaker than you think. This shouldn’t have been news for me, but I implicitly did think colonizing Europeans ran around saying “fuck you, I have a sword and I want your stuff”, whereas at least by later stages they were saying things like “we have to save the poor Africans from the evil Arab slave traders” [source: King Leopold’s Ghost]. I knew people could lie about their motives but I thought it was a modern lie, and it’s not.
Also it’s not obvious to me that all of the people saying “we must save them” were overtly lying. They may have been extremely sincere, but not skilled or powerful enough to prevent their countrymen from abusing power their country took.
I still have the impression that the Romans and Mongols didn’t need a justification beyond “fuck you I want your stuff” but I’m no longer 100% sure that if we looked at contemporary sources we wouldn’t find someone going “the eventual gains from peace and trade will balance out their suffering...”
I still have the impression that the Romans and Mongols didn’t need a justification beyond “fuck you I want your stuff” but I’m no longer 100% sure that if we looked at contemporary sources we wouldn’t find someone going “the eventual gains from peace and trade will balance out their suffering...”
My high school history teacher emphasized the Mongols’ religious tolerance and the economic gains stemming from the Pax Mongolica. She refused to acknowledge that the Mongols destroyed cities.
There’s at least one Hardcore History episode where Carlin gets into this tendency in historiography, and predicts that given enough time, some edgy historian in 2342 or so will be the first to argue that WW2 was net positive; I think he specifically talks about revisionist takes on Ghengis Khan as an example.
I am just now realizing contemporary is one of those words that works as its own opposite and is thus useless given the slightest ambiguity. I was trying to signify “as the invasions were actually happening”, since the reinterpretations are fairly common now.
I think one point to draw from this is that people saying “this is for their own good” is very weak evidence. Like, even weaker than you think. This shouldn’t have been news for me, but I implicitly did think colonizing Europeans ran around saying “fuck you, I have a sword and I want your stuff”, whereas at least by later stages they were saying things like “we have to save the poor Africans from the evil Arab slave traders” [source: King Leopold’s Ghost]. I knew people could lie about their motives but I thought it was a modern lie, and it’s not.
Also it’s not obvious to me that all of the people saying “we must save them” were overtly lying. They may have been extremely sincere, but not skilled or powerful enough to prevent their countrymen from abusing power their country took.
I still have the impression that the Romans and Mongols didn’t need a justification beyond “fuck you I want your stuff” but I’m no longer 100% sure that if we looked at contemporary sources we wouldn’t find someone going “the eventual gains from peace and trade will balance out their suffering...”
My high school history teacher emphasized the Mongols’ religious tolerance and the economic gains stemming from the Pax Mongolica. She refused to acknowledge that the Mongols destroyed cities.
There’s at least one Hardcore History episode where Carlin gets into this tendency in historiography, and predicts that given enough time, some edgy historian in 2342 or so will be the first to argue that WW2 was net positive; I think he specifically talks about revisionist takes on Ghengis Khan as an example.
I am just now realizing contemporary is one of those words that works as its own opposite and is thus useless given the slightest ambiguity. I was trying to signify “as the invasions were actually happening”, since the reinterpretations are fairly common now.
I went through the exact same thought process while writing my comment too.