Meditators who find their feeling of free will and self “dissolved’ aren’t noted to act any differently by their family/coworkers afterwards, a fact that many find very confusing and upsetting. So if there isn’t a difference in behavior (other than talking about meditation a lot), why would there be a selection advantage?
First of all, talking about meditation a lot probably is selected against (at least slightly). Even slight selection effects add up rapidly over evolutionary timescales.
But I don’t think that’s the crux of the issue. In general, meditators who achieve enlightenment or who “pull up hatred by the roots” also don’t show sudden major changes in longterm behavior.
Suppose instead of “free will” that we were discussing dukkha (roughly “suffering”).
Dukkha serves an obvious evolutionary purpose. Dukkha (just like free will) is a useful component to motivating intentional behavior. But advanced meditators frequently transcend dukkha. When they do, they tend to keep doing basically what they have always been doing (with some flamboyant exceptions that are not relevant to this discussion). Why? Because they don’t suddenly forget all the good habits and mental models they built up over many years of living.
I think the illusion of free will, just like dukkha, is most important to brains without strong meta-cognition. Especially young ones.
OK, I looked at some of the research for enlightenment again, and it looks like the biggest problem associated with enlightenment is severe memory issues? That would explain why it would be selected against—memory is pretty important!
And I think I understand what you’re saying. Sarkic pain/pleasure is required to teach new minds behaviors and patterns. Children born without pain reception tend to do things like chew off their own limbs for fun. Removing the grounding for pain/pleasure doesn’t affect the learned behaviors much once they’re fully formed.
Some have found negative effects, which look to me like what I would expect of someone who had actually expunged their sense of self. The subjects sound like burnt-out potheads.
Meditators who find their feeling of free will and self “dissolved’ aren’t noted to act any differently by their family/coworkers afterwards, a fact that many find very confusing and upsetting. So if there isn’t a difference in behavior (other than talking about meditation a lot), why would there be a selection advantage?
Good question.
First of all, talking about meditation a lot probably is selected against (at least slightly). Even slight selection effects add up rapidly over evolutionary timescales.
But I don’t think that’s the crux of the issue. In general, meditators who achieve enlightenment or who “pull up hatred by the roots” also don’t show sudden major changes in longterm behavior.
Suppose instead of “free will” that we were discussing dukkha (roughly “suffering”).
Dukkha serves an obvious evolutionary purpose. Dukkha (just like free will) is a useful component to motivating intentional behavior. But advanced meditators frequently transcend dukkha. When they do, they tend to keep doing basically what they have always been doing (with some flamboyant exceptions that are not relevant to this discussion). Why? Because they don’t suddenly forget all the good habits and mental models they built up over many years of living.
I think the illusion of free will, just like dukkha, is most important to brains without strong meta-cognition. Especially young ones.
OK, I looked at some of the research for enlightenment again, and it looks like the biggest problem associated with enlightenment is severe memory issues? That would explain why it would be selected against—memory is pretty important!
And I think I understand what you’re saying. Sarkic pain/pleasure is required to teach new minds behaviors and patterns. Children born without pain reception tend to do things like chew off their own limbs for fun. Removing the grounding for pain/pleasure doesn’t affect the learned behaviors much once they’re fully formed.
Some have found negative effects, which look to me like what I would expect of someone who had actually expunged their sense of self. The subjects sound like burnt-out potheads.