This has been my concern. I’m not involved with 80k but I travel in Effective Altruism circles, which extend beyond 80k and include most of their memes.
What is incredibly frustrating is that none of this actually proves anything. It is still true that a wealthy banker is probably able to do more good than a single aid worker. Clearly we DO need to make sure there’s an object-level impact somewhere. But for the near future, unless their memes overtake the bulk of the philanthropy world, it is likely that methods 80k advocates are sound.
Still, the whole thing smells really off to me, and your post sums up exactly why. It is awful convenient for a movement consisting of mostly upper-middle-class college grads that their “effective” tools for goodness award them the status and wealth that they’d otherwise feel entitled to.
alternately, humans are badly made and care more about status and wealth than about the poor sick. They won’t listen if you tell them to sacrifice themselves, but they might listen if you tell them to gain status and also help the poor at the same time. The mark of a strong system in my mind is one that functions despite the perverse desires of the participants. If 80k can harness people’s desire to do charity to people’s desire for money and status I think it can go really far.
This has been my concern. I’m not involved with 80k but I travel in Effective Altruism circles, which extend beyond 80k and include most of their memes.
What is incredibly frustrating is that none of this actually proves anything. It is still true that a wealthy banker is probably able to do more good than a single aid worker. Clearly we DO need to make sure there’s an object-level impact somewhere. But for the near future, unless their memes overtake the bulk of the philanthropy world, it is likely that methods 80k advocates are sound.
Still, the whole thing smells really off to me, and your post sums up exactly why. It is awful convenient for a movement consisting of mostly upper-middle-class college grads that their “effective” tools for goodness award them the status and wealth that they’d otherwise feel entitled to.
alternately, humans are badly made and care more about status and wealth than about the poor sick. They won’t listen if you tell them to sacrifice themselves, but they might listen if you tell them to gain status and also help the poor at the same time. The mark of a strong system in my mind is one that functions despite the perverse desires of the participants. If 80k can harness people’s desire to do charity to people’s desire for money and status I think it can go really far.
That is a good point.
this seems like a feature since it means it is attractive to a MUCH larger subset of the populace than self sacrifice.