Having said that, in light of your other comment about wanting to see a public Double Crux, “should CFAR be positive or negative evidence of a technique’s validity” is precisely the sort of question that Double Crux is for, and I’d be interested in doing a public DC on it with you if you’re up for it (normally I’d suggest skype but since part of the point is to produce something easy for others to consume, chatlog could be fine)
(that said, I’m fairly busy in the next 30 hours or so. I might be up for it Friday night or over the weekend though)
(Edit: it looks like some other people also offered something like this, I don’t think it’s especially important I be involved, but think it’d probably be valuable in any case)
I agree with you re: the grandparent, and I appreciate the offer re: the Double Crux.
I am, sadly, unlikely to be able to take you up on it; my “commenting on or about an internet forum” time budget is already taken up by this flurry of activity here on LW 2.0.
Instead, I’d just like to reiterate my request / suggestion that you folks find some way to be able to point readers to pre-existing, publicly viewable examples of the technique being used. I think much hinges on that, at this point. Offering, when questioned, to demonstrate Double Crux, by way of trying to debate whether Double Crux is any good, is all very well, but—it simply doesn’t scale!
Doesn’t scale, but seems like it should happen at least once. (tongue sort of but not entirely in cheek). Then you can just link to it the second time.
The problem is that Double Crux is best conducted in ways that aren’t very amenable to publicizing (i.e. a private walk where people feel free-er), so there needs to be some attempts to do a public one at a time when:
- it’s high enough stakes that it matters so you can see people using the technique for real —it’s low enough stakes that it’s okay to publicly share it without you having to worry about “looking good” during the discussion —it’s convenient to record in some way
I agree, which is why I think noticing that there’s an opportunity to do a public one (i.e. now) is something that should be treated as a valuable opportunity that’s worth treating differently than arguing-on-the-internet-qua-arguing-on-the-internet.
(I also think arguing “should ‘created by CFAR’ be positive or negative evidence” is at least slightly less meta-sturbatory than “let’s double crux about double crux”)
Strong agree that it’s both true that “the lack of an example to point to produces justified skepticism” and that “that’s partly unfair because that skepticism and other ‘too busys’ keep feeding into no one taking the time to create said example.”
Having said that, in light of your other comment about wanting to see a public Double Crux, “should CFAR be positive or negative evidence of a technique’s validity” is precisely the sort of question that Double Crux is for, and I’d be interested in doing a public DC on it with you if you’re up for it (normally I’d suggest skype but since part of the point is to produce something easy for others to consume, chatlog could be fine)
(that said, I’m fairly busy in the next 30 hours or so. I might be up for it Friday night or over the weekend though)
(Edit: it looks like some other people also offered something like this, I don’t think it’s especially important I be involved, but think it’d probably be valuable in any case)
I agree with you re: the grandparent, and I appreciate the offer re: the Double Crux.
I am, sadly, unlikely to be able to take you up on it; my “commenting on or about an internet forum” time budget is already taken up by this flurry of activity here on LW 2.0.
Instead, I’d just like to reiterate my request / suggestion that you folks find some way to be able to point readers to pre-existing, publicly viewable examples of the technique being used. I think much hinges on that, at this point. Offering, when questioned, to demonstrate Double Crux, by way of trying to debate whether Double Crux is any good, is all very well, but—it simply doesn’t scale!
Doesn’t scale, but seems like it should happen at least once. (tongue sort of but not entirely in cheek). Then you can just link to it the second time.
The problem is that Double Crux is best conducted in ways that aren’t very amenable to publicizing (i.e. a private walk where people feel free-er), so there needs to be some attempts to do a public one at a time when:
- it’s high enough stakes that it matters so you can see people using the technique for real
—it’s low enough stakes that it’s okay to publicly share it without you having to worry about “looking good” during the discussion
—it’s convenient to record in some way
Well, as I say elsewhere in these comments—that does make it of rather limited utility to much of the LW readership!
I agree, which is why I think noticing that there’s an opportunity to do a public one (i.e. now) is something that should be treated as a valuable opportunity that’s worth treating differently than arguing-on-the-internet-qua-arguing-on-the-internet.
(I also think arguing “should ‘created by CFAR’ be positive or negative evidence” is at least slightly less meta-sturbatory than “let’s double crux about double crux”)
Strong agree that it’s both true that “the lack of an example to point to produces justified skepticism” and that “that’s partly unfair because that skepticism and other ‘too busys’ keep feeding into no one taking the time to create said example.”