Somewhat long and rambly response, perhaps in the spirit of the post:
I think those who quest for rationality, even if not completely, ought to be welcome here. Caveat that applies to all: I don’t really deserve a vote, as a short-timer here.
So long as you are not trying to deliberately peddle irrationality, you’re acting in good faith. That goes a fair distance.
Religious people are regularly rational and right on a lot of different issues. Rejecting a religious person’s view solely because of religion doesn’t seem like a good idea at all. (Deciding not to use time on a zombie-vampire hypothesis because it stems from religious belief rather than empirical evidence is dandy, though.) Irrational atheists are also commonplace.
Religion is an indicator of rationality, just not the be-all end-all of it.
This isn’t a binary sin/no-sin situation. You can be rational in some areas and not others. Some religious people are able to be quite rational in virtually all day-to-day dealings. Some are poisoned.
We’re all wanna-be rationals at some point. This post, to me, is great—the best thing I’ve seen written by MrHen. If someone tries to tell us that God wants us to eat less bacon, it’s going to go badly, but I see no reason to reject or deter MrHen as a member.
Don’t rationalists want to reach to religious people at some point? If you fix other parts of the map, religion may fade or change. For some people, religion is the result of irrational thinking, rather than the cause. Right?
If someone stumbles across this and wants to make 300 arguments for God, the group doesn’t have time for that. But burning at the stake seems unnecessary; a clear view that this is not rational and not up for dispute.… well, the theists who stay past that are worth something.
Personal story: I read the Bible (and Scarne on Gambling) twice through before I was 10, and led Bible studies in my teens; I was also a very skinny guy (with glasses. Playing Dungeons and Dragons). My girlfriend the summer between high school and college (a fellow Christian, though not as properly devout) predicted I would become an atheist and gain 50 pounds within four years. I found that prediction absurd. I was an atheist in 16 months, and gained 50 pounds in three years.
Lesson: Outside view has value.
Lesson 2: Continual efforts to examine religious beliefs in good faith predictably leads to less religion.
Lesson 3: You can’t keep eating far more than everyone else and stay thin.
I vote for, “Keep posting,” if it wasn’t clear from the above. This post is sincere, respectful, reasonable, and not trying to convert the heathens. Amen, brother.
My girlfriend the summer between high school and college (a fellow Christian, though not as properly devout) predicted I would become an atheist and gain 50 pounds within four years. I found that prediction absurd. I was an atheist in 16 months, and gained 50 pounds in three years.
With a prediction record like that we should prefer that she we here instead. ;-) I don’t supposed she rated her confidence numerically?
That would be a really nice tool if taken seriously. I don’t think there are any valid arguments for theism with true premises but a list of 600+ strawmen isn’t going to do much for anyone.
Somewhat long and rambly response, perhaps in the spirit of the post:
I think those who quest for rationality, even if not completely, ought to be welcome here. Caveat that applies to all: I don’t really deserve a vote, as a short-timer here.
So long as you are not trying to deliberately peddle irrationality, you’re acting in good faith. That goes a fair distance.
Religious people are regularly rational and right on a lot of different issues. Rejecting a religious person’s view solely because of religion doesn’t seem like a good idea at all. (Deciding not to use time on a zombie-vampire hypothesis because it stems from religious belief rather than empirical evidence is dandy, though.) Irrational atheists are also commonplace.
Religion is an indicator of rationality, just not the be-all end-all of it.
This isn’t a binary sin/no-sin situation. You can be rational in some areas and not others. Some religious people are able to be quite rational in virtually all day-to-day dealings. Some are poisoned.
We’re all wanna-be rationals at some point. This post, to me, is great—the best thing I’ve seen written by MrHen. If someone tries to tell us that God wants us to eat less bacon, it’s going to go badly, but I see no reason to reject or deter MrHen as a member.
Don’t rationalists want to reach to religious people at some point? If you fix other parts of the map, religion may fade or change. For some people, religion is the result of irrational thinking, rather than the cause. Right?
If someone stumbles across this and wants to make 300 arguments for God, the group doesn’t have time for that. But burning at the stake seems unnecessary; a clear view that this is not rational and not up for dispute.… well, the theists who stay past that are worth something.
Personal story: I read the Bible (and Scarne on Gambling) twice through before I was 10, and led Bible studies in my teens; I was also a very skinny guy (with glasses. Playing Dungeons and Dragons). My girlfriend the summer between high school and college (a fellow Christian, though not as properly devout) predicted I would become an atheist and gain 50 pounds within four years. I found that prediction absurd. I was an atheist in 16 months, and gained 50 pounds in three years.
Lesson: Outside view has value. Lesson 2: Continual efforts to examine religious beliefs in good faith predictably leads to less religion. Lesson 3: You can’t keep eating far more than everyone else and stay thin.
I vote for, “Keep posting,” if it wasn’t clear from the above. This post is sincere, respectful, reasonable, and not trying to convert the heathens. Amen, brother.
[Edited; the auto-numbering was wonky]
With a prediction record like that we should prefer that she we here instead. ;-) I don’t supposed she rated her confidence numerically?
300? It’s been done… more than twice.
That would be a really nice tool if taken seriously. I don’t think there are any valid arguments for theism with true premises but a list of 600+ strawmen isn’t going to do much for anyone.
If you can find arguments that aren’t ultimately strawmen, please post them. I haven’t seen them yet.
edit: By this I mean, if you can find arguments that when reduced to bullet points don’t sound like those from that list, I’d like to see them.