You do realize there have been plenty of self-immolations in the West and elsewhere that have sparked no such things in the past decades (example: an American man self-immolated to protest family courts not more than a little over a month ago)?
But he probably sparked even less of a change in how foreigners think of America. The fact that nobody over here (in Greece) heard of this American man—what does it suggest to you about the veracity of your claim that foreigners’ opinions are the only valid reason for a self-immolation?
The vast majority of people who self-immolate and explicitly state that it is for political reasons do not spark any kind of change.
A rather obvious observation.
But that’s not the position you took in your post. You stated instead “Only selfimmolate if you care about what foreigners think”—clearly indicating that you believe self-immolation has more of an effect of foreign opinion than on local opinion.
That’s a far different and far stronger claim than “most self-immolations don’t lead to revolutions”.
Had media censorship been more thorough, or had the Western media not picked up on it and showcased it as another example of how horrible those places are it would not have had such an effect. Or had the people simply not cared about what Western media say in the same way most Americans don’t care about what Russian media say about
Are you positing that the Tunisians had their revolution primarily because they cared what western media would think of Tunisia? Is this the claim you’re making?
But he probably sparked even less of a change in how foreigners think of America. The fact that nobody over here (in Greece) heard of this American man—what does it suggest to you about the veracity of your claim that foreigners’ opinions are the only valid reason for a self-immolation?
I didn’t say that such protest always sparks interest abroad, only that when it does its far more likley to receive sympathetic coverage than when it sparks interest at home.
But you do have a point. Perhaps Greece isn’t really foreign? It probably has family court practices not that different in their basic premsies. A criticism of say American principles is a also a criticism of Greek family court practices. Also Greek media probably take their ques from major respectable Western sources on what to emphasise, at least the media in my country do. Western media share a pretty uniform outlook when it comes to institutional criticism compared to kinds of instiutional criticism that say Iranian or Chinese media would emphasise.
Or maybe Greeks have far more pressing issues dominating the media landscape at this point?
But that’s not the position you took in your post. You stated instead “Only selfimmolate if you care about what foreigners think”—clearly indicating that you believe self-immolation has more of an effect of foreign opinion than on local opinion.
That’s a far different and far stronger claim than “most self-immolations don’t lead to revolutions”.
When it has effected change in the past this has been true.
Are you positing that the Tunisians had their revolution primarily because they cared what western media would think of Tunisia? Is this the claim you’re making?
Tunisians would have not revolted had all the media they where following told them there is nothing to get worked up over.
It’s your theory, what does “foreign” mean in your theory? Right now you seem to me to be fudging the evidence so that they fit into your theory, instead of letting the evidence verify or reject the theory.
A criticism of say American principles is a also a criticism of Greek family court practices.
So is your theory now that it’s not about whether something is near or far, local or foreign, but rather about the specific principles attacked or supported by said self-immolation?
Tunisians would have not revolted had all the media they where following told them there is nothing to get worked up over.
And yet you imply that Tunisians are mainly following Western media? Your argument might make sense if it specified Al Jazeera instead, which the Arab world indeed follows and which is indeed foreign media to Tunisia (it’s Qatar-based) -- but if you consider Greece non-foreign to America, even though Greece and America have different religions, different languages, even different alphabets… you probably don’t consider Qatar foreign to Tunisia (both Sunni Muslim-majority nations that speak Arabic).
But he probably sparked even less of a change in how foreigners think of America. The fact that nobody over here (in Greece) heard of this American man—what does it suggest to you about the veracity of your claim that foreigners’ opinions are the only valid reason for a self-immolation?
A rather obvious observation.
But that’s not the position you took in your post. You stated instead “Only selfimmolate if you care about what foreigners think”—clearly indicating that you believe self-immolation has more of an effect of foreign opinion than on local opinion.
That’s a far different and far stronger claim than “most self-immolations don’t lead to revolutions”.
Are you positing that the Tunisians had their revolution primarily because they cared what western media would think of Tunisia? Is this the claim you’re making?
I didn’t say that such protest always sparks interest abroad, only that when it does its far more likley to receive sympathetic coverage than when it sparks interest at home.
But you do have a point. Perhaps Greece isn’t really foreign? It probably has family court practices not that different in their basic premsies. A criticism of say American principles is a also a criticism of Greek family court practices. Also Greek media probably take their ques from major respectable Western sources on what to emphasise, at least the media in my country do. Western media share a pretty uniform outlook when it comes to institutional criticism compared to kinds of instiutional criticism that say Iranian or Chinese media would emphasise.
Or maybe Greeks have far more pressing issues dominating the media landscape at this point?
When it has effected change in the past this has been true.
Tunisians would have not revolted had all the media they where following told them there is nothing to get worked up over.
It’s your theory, what does “foreign” mean in your theory? Right now you seem to me to be fudging the evidence so that they fit into your theory, instead of letting the evidence verify or reject the theory.
So is your theory now that it’s not about whether something is near or far, local or foreign, but rather about the specific principles attacked or supported by said self-immolation?
And yet you imply that Tunisians are mainly following Western media? Your argument might make sense if it specified Al Jazeera instead, which the Arab world indeed follows and which is indeed foreign media to Tunisia (it’s Qatar-based) -- but if you consider Greece non-foreign to America, even though Greece and America have different religions, different languages, even different alphabets… you probably don’t consider Qatar foreign to Tunisia (both Sunni Muslim-majority nations that speak Arabic).