My motivation is pure. I am trying to (rationally) figure out the truth. Though, I’d be epistemologically naive if I expected you to believe me just because I told you “I’m a good person, trust me!”.
Also—I could care less about what people opine (without backing logical/rational arguments.) I could have chosen to do a big long rant with a bunch of clickbait-y quips and half-truthisms on X to try to jack up engagement and suck ad revenue out of X like a leach, but luckily I’m not an asshole (in my humble opinion, lol), so I came here instead. (Not to imply that you said that; I just say this more in an attempt to convey my motives and character.) I came to this site in particular because:
I thought its users would probably understand the significance of a claim that Sam Altman has been quietly hiding the fact that he sexually assaulted his 4-year-old sister.
I thought that its users would be good at calling me out on any logical/irrational bullshit that I (unintentionally) propagated. I want to be right, not to feel right. Say what you will about LessWrong, but its users do love to be quite exacting in their arguments about whether or not they think a person is making rational arguments. Indeed, I’ve modified this post, and my replies, many times in response to comments I’ve received in a way that I think has been to the benefit of the clarity of this post and its conveyance of my position. I’m glad that my karma score has jumped all over the place as I’ve updated my post—it means that LessWrong users are actually thinking critically about the degree to which I am being rational.
It seems to me, at this point, one of two things is true:
Annie Altman is lying left, right,. and center, or is deluded, disconnected from reality, or just misinformed/misunderstanding things to the point that she believes she is telling the truth when she is not.
She is not lying (at least, to some degree.)
Yes, I know we can wonder about base rates and what mental illness we think she may likely have or not have. And such discussions are valid. But I am more interested in (more) concrete research, at the moment, which I’m still working on.
This post is not yet done.
Btw., you don’t have to agree with my (developing) interpretations here. The thing I think is most relevant about this post is the collection of information I’ve assembled, which has nothing to do with my interpretation of it.
I have been pleasantly surprised by the job you’ve done with this post, but I really don’t like your frame here.
We can debate whether Sam Altman’s alleged offenses are relevant to this forum, but I don’t think there’s any case to be made that his sister’s mental health or honesty is relevant to anyone here. In which case the question isn’t “is Annie lying?”, it’s “what did Sam Altman do? is it a pattern” and perhaps “is there any additional context we should know?”[1].
In particular, children who commit sexual assault are often playing out their past abuse by adults. I believe this is less true the older the child is, and can’t immediately find numbers for 13 year olds.
The points you make are valid. You also make a good point about the importance of additional context.
I think I may have miscommunicated myself to some extent, based on the fact that I largely agree with your reply here.
The most clear, and most general framing of my motives is this:
My overarching, most fundamental desire is for humanity to have a positive AI future.
Because of this, I want to do my best to determine the validity of a claim(s) such as Annie’s that asserts that the CEO of the world’s (leading) artificial intelligence company / research org / lab / whatever you want to call it may actually be a person of highly questionable morals. The whole reason we got OpenAI in the first place is, apparently, because Elon freaked out when Larry Page called him a ‘specist’ back in 2013. (I will not bother commenting on whether or not I think this was ultimately a good thing. ) I very much want the person leading the development of and (attempts at) alignment of superintelligence to be a good person.
The reason I have made this post here is because of (2), not because I thought that this forum was the right place to worry about the mental health of Annie Altman. While obviously I am concerned for Annie Altman herself independent of my superintelligence / Sam Altman / OpenAI concerns, the reason why I am posting “about Annie” here on LessWrong is because of the potential ramifications of what she is saying about Sam Altman. This isn’t an “Annie Altman post”; it’s a “Sam Altman post” where Annie Altman is the conduit.
Hopefully this framing of mine is more reasonable. And thank you for the compliment—I am trying my best to conduct myself rationally :)
I am curious how specifically you intend to figure out the truth of “something happened in private when I was 4 years old” claim. What kind of research could bring more light to this topic?
One benefit of boosting the visibility of accusations like this is that it makes it easier for others to come forward as well, should there be a pattern with other abuse victims. Or even just other people possibly having had highly concerning experiences of a non-sexual but still interpersonally exploitative nature.
If this doesn’t happen, it’s probabilistic evidence against the worst tail scenarios of character traits, which would be helpful if we could significantly discount that.
It’s frustrating that we may never know, but one way to think about this is “we’d at least want to find out the truth in the worlds where it’s easy to find out.”
Okay, thanks for the context. I appreciate the effort you’ve taken to collate information.
FWIW the information you have presented makes it seem like you are building a case against Sam Altman moreso than Annie herself is. And looking at the information without consideration for the identities of the alleged perpetrator and victim, I would conclude that the allegations are more likely non-credible than not. (I can elaborate further on why I think so).
Actually, right now, I believe that, based upon the information I currently have, it is improper for me to conclude that Sam Altman abused Annie Altman, and that the proper stance is I do not know if Annie Altman’s claims are correct or not; therefore, it is only rational to hold Sam Altman innocent.
However—I’m in the process of gathering more information. Once I’ve conducted research to a degree I consider satisfactory, I’d be happy to hear your reasoning if, at that point, our conclusions disagree. For now, I’ll suggest that you wait until I finish up my research, though feel free to ignore this suggestion if you want :)
My motivation is pure. I am trying to (rationally) figure out the truth. Though, I’d be epistemologically naive if I expected you to believe me just because I told you “I’m a good person, trust me!”.
Also—I could care less about what people opine (without backing logical/rational arguments.) I could have chosen to do a big long rant with a bunch of clickbait-y quips and half-truthisms on X to try to jack up engagement and suck ad revenue out of X like a leach, but luckily I’m not an asshole (in my humble opinion, lol), so I came here instead. (Not to imply that you said that; I just say this more in an attempt to convey my motives and character.) I came to this site in particular because:
I thought its users would probably understand the significance of a claim that Sam Altman has been quietly hiding the fact that he sexually assaulted his 4-year-old sister.
I thought that its users would be good at calling me out on any logical/irrational bullshit that I (unintentionally) propagated. I want to be right, not to feel right. Say what you will about LessWrong, but its users do love to be quite exacting in their arguments about whether or not they think a person is making rational arguments. Indeed, I’ve modified this post, and my replies, many times in response to comments I’ve received in a way that I think has been to the benefit of the clarity of this post and its conveyance of my position. I’m glad that my karma score has jumped all over the place as I’ve updated my post—it means that LessWrong users are actually thinking critically about the degree to which I am being rational.
It seems to me, at this point, one of two things is true:
Annie Altman is lying left, right,. and center, or is deluded, disconnected from reality, or just misinformed/misunderstanding things to the point that she believes she is telling the truth when she is not.
She is not lying (at least, to some degree.)
Yes, I know we can wonder about base rates and what mental illness we think she may likely have or not have. And such discussions are valid. But I am more interested in (more) concrete research, at the moment, which I’m still working on.
This post is not yet done.
Btw., you don’t have to agree with my (developing) interpretations here. The thing I think is most relevant about this post is the collection of information I’ve assembled, which has nothing to do with my interpretation of it.
I have been pleasantly surprised by the job you’ve done with this post, but I really don’t like your frame here.
We can debate whether Sam Altman’s alleged offenses are relevant to this forum, but I don’t think there’s any case to be made that his sister’s mental health or honesty is relevant to anyone here. In which case the question isn’t “is Annie lying?”, it’s “what did Sam Altman do? is it a pattern” and perhaps “is there any additional context we should know?”[1].
In particular, children who commit sexual assault are often playing out their past abuse by adults. I believe this is less true the older the child is, and can’t immediately find numbers for 13 year olds.
The points you make are valid. You also make a good point about the importance of additional context.
I think I may have miscommunicated myself to some extent, based on the fact that I largely agree with your reply here.
The most clear, and most general framing of my motives is this:
My overarching, most fundamental desire is for humanity to have a positive AI future.
Because of this, I want to do my best to determine the validity of a claim(s) such as Annie’s that asserts that the CEO of the world’s (leading) artificial intelligence company / research org / lab / whatever you want to call it may actually be a person of highly questionable morals. The whole reason we got OpenAI in the first place is, apparently, because Elon freaked out when Larry Page called him a ‘specist’ back in 2013. (I will not bother commenting on whether or not I think this was ultimately a good thing. ) I very much want the person leading the development of and (attempts at) alignment of superintelligence to be a good person.
The reason I have made this post here is because of (2), not because I thought that this forum was the right place to worry about the mental health of Annie Altman. While obviously I am concerned for Annie Altman herself independent of my superintelligence / Sam Altman / OpenAI concerns, the reason why I am posting “about Annie” here on LessWrong is because of the potential ramifications of what she is saying about Sam Altman. This isn’t an “Annie Altman post”; it’s a “Sam Altman post” where Annie Altman is the conduit.
Hopefully this framing of mine is more reasonable. And thank you for the compliment—I am trying my best to conduct myself rationally :)
I am curious how specifically you intend to figure out the truth of “something happened in private when I was 4 years old” claim. What kind of research could bring more light to this topic?
One benefit of boosting the visibility of accusations like this is that it makes it easier for others to come forward as well, should there be a pattern with other abuse victims. Or even just other people possibly having had highly concerning experiences of a non-sexual but still interpersonally exploitative nature.
If this doesn’t happen, it’s probabilistic evidence against the worst tail scenarios of character traits, which would be helpful if we could significantly discount that.
It’s frustrating that we may never know, but one way to think about this is “we’d at least want to find out the truth in the worlds where it’s easy to find out.”
Okay, thanks for the context. I appreciate the effort you’ve taken to collate information.
FWIW the information you have presented makes it seem like you are building a case against Sam Altman moreso than Annie herself is. And looking at the information without consideration for the identities of the alleged perpetrator and victim, I would conclude that the allegations are more likely non-credible than not. (I can elaborate further on why I think so).
Thanks!
Actually, right now, I believe that, based upon the information I currently have, it is improper for me to conclude that Sam Altman abused Annie Altman, and that the proper stance is I do not know if Annie Altman’s claims are correct or not; therefore, it is only rational to hold Sam Altman innocent.
However—I’m in the process of gathering more information. Once I’ve conducted research to a degree I consider satisfactory, I’d be happy to hear your reasoning if, at that point, our conclusions disagree. For now, I’ll suggest that you wait until I finish up my research, though feel free to ignore this suggestion if you want :)
So, is there any progress on this topic?