But it is our mistake that we didn’t stand firmly against drugs, didn’t pay more attention to the dangers of self-experimenting, and didn’t kick out Ziz sooner.
Ziz is actually straight edge, she was super paranoid about drugs messing with her or leaving her in a less functional state. Also like, imo? kicking Ziz out sooner wouldn’t have helped, if anything it would have exacerbated the issue and possibly just brought things to a head faster. you can’t just inflict severe trauma on someone and wash your hands of them, eventually that will come back to bite you.
you can’t just inflict severe trauma on someone and wash your hands of them, eventually that will come back to bite you.
Could you please clarify what do you mean in this context by “inflicting severe trauma”? Like, learning about timeless decision theory? (At the CFAR workshop, or would reading the Sequences online already qualify as inflicting trauma?)
If CFAR workshops were inflicting trauma on Ziz, then… more workshops mean more trauma? (Or don’t they? How should CFAR predict which workshops will have a traumatizing effect and which ones will be okay? Especially for a person that seems unusual, because hundreds of others have participated at the workshops without being traumatized by them.) So it’s like “if you inflict trauma on someone, you can’t just stop inflicting more trauma on them”?
it would have exacerbated the issue and possibly just brought things to a head faster
This seems to match patterns like “you can’t just break up with an abusive boyfriend, because that would escalate the situation and he might seriously hurt you”. Like, maybe yes, but what is the proposed alternative, because obviously “doing more of the same” seems to only make things worse, albeit more slowly in short term.
(I don’t think that the analogy is improper here, considering that Zizians have actually hurt people—that’s why are having the debate here—and vindictiveness seems like a central component of their ideology.)
Possible answer: When CFAR notices that someone seems reacting really badly on their workshop, they should offer to pay them a therapy? (And increase the costs of workshop, as a health insurance.) Do you think there is a chance Ziz would have accepted?
Ziz is actually straight edge, she was super paranoid about drugs messing with her or leaving her in a less functional state. Also like, imo? kicking Ziz out sooner wouldn’t have helped, if anything it would have exacerbated the issue and possibly just brought things to a head faster. you can’t just inflict severe trauma on someone and wash your hands of them, eventually that will come back to bite you.
Thank you for the info.
Could you please clarify what do you mean in this context by “inflicting severe trauma”? Like, learning about timeless decision theory? (At the CFAR workshop, or would reading the Sequences online already qualify as inflicting trauma?)
If CFAR workshops were inflicting trauma on Ziz, then… more workshops mean more trauma? (Or don’t they? How should CFAR predict which workshops will have a traumatizing effect and which ones will be okay? Especially for a person that seems unusual, because hundreds of others have participated at the workshops without being traumatized by them.) So it’s like “if you inflict trauma on someone, you can’t just stop inflicting more trauma on them”?
This seems to match patterns like “you can’t just break up with an abusive boyfriend, because that would escalate the situation and he might seriously hurt you”. Like, maybe yes, but what is the proposed alternative, because obviously “doing more of the same” seems to only make things worse, albeit more slowly in short term.
(I don’t think that the analogy is improper here, considering that Zizians have actually hurt people—that’s why are having the debate here—and vindictiveness seems like a central component of their ideology.)
Possible answer: When CFAR notices that someone seems reacting really badly on their workshop, they should offer to pay them a therapy? (And increase the costs of workshop, as a health insurance.) Do you think there is a chance Ziz would have accepted?