Is this the first relationship in which you’ve had these anxieties? (I assume from the post you’ve had previous relationships)
An alternative born from my own experience—that is, anecdotal evidence—is that if I think the other person isn’t that interested, I am probably right. (The last relationship in which I felt that way, the girl in question got pissed at me when I cut it off after I decided she wasn’t that interested. About a year later, she apologized, and admitted that she wasn’t; she was actually still involved with somebody else, and had started seeing him again about the time I started getting those impressions. The tip-off was that communication which had been pretty much continual started lapsing; I’d get one response for every two or three texts or e-mails sent, and shortly after that she started delaying continually/cancelling every date.) I put off breaking it off for nearly a month, assuming I was being irrational and importing anxieties from my last relationship, which followed a similar pattern culminating in my catching her in a lie and the whole thing imploding rather dramatically.
So my suspicion is that you’re not being irrational, you’re simply responding to evidence you’re not comfortable calling as such.
So my suspicion is that you’re not being irrational, you’re simply responding to evidence you’re not comfortable calling as such.
I strongly advise against taking this advice in this particular instance. It constitutes some insight (“beware denial”) and was a lesson that OrphanWilde needed at the time. However the overwhelmingly strong indication of Kenoubi’s words (and also the correlated symptom “best two weeks of my life”) is that Kenoubi is experiencing the oh so common effects of social anxiety and nerves that often comes when relatively little experience with dating. He doesn’t need to be taking irrational fears more seriously.
I didn’t offer any particular advice there, only suggested his fears may be rational; but it’s an important caveat that merely because a belief is rational doesn’t make that belief correct, which I suppose I should have been more clear about.
It sounds to me like the real basis of his concern may be the fact that he’s making unreciprocated requests. I have no in-depth knowledge of the situation, so I’m merely hazarding a guess here, but if he’s the one arranging all the dates (or whatever), an alleviation of his fears would require her to take a more active role in the relationship. Which may require having a serious discussion admitting his anxieties and the reasons for them. An arrangement where she has to plan every other date, or whatever, might suffice.
I’ve experienced a one way relationship before (see http://lesswrong.com/r/discussion/lw/gtv/need_some_psychology_advice/8j5k) and I really don’t think that’s what’s going on here. I think she has a perfectly reasonable and appropriate level of interest and involvement concordant with someone she’s been dating for two weeks, and I have an unreasonable and inappropriate level due, once again, to my brain chemistry and/or personal history. Calling things off right now would be a terrible idea because 1) I really have no reason to think it won’t work and 2) I’m going to have to deal with this getting-too-involved-too-soon thing in ANY relationship, so I really need to learn to manage it.
Yeah, a lot of this is about arranging dates. I was actually thinking about proposing regularly scheduled dates, because it seems like it would stress her out a bit to be responsible for them, just like it does me; ironically the main reason I haven’t mentioned this to her yet is that it itself is sort of a big scary request.
Just a note: Different people have different dates. Probably the worst (but usually the first that comes into mind) kind is the “awkward silence in a romantic restaurant” kind of date. This works best in Hollywood movies, and perhaps for experienced seducers who don’t feel any anxiety and can easily manage social situations. (For them, this is good signalling, but that’s precisely because it is costly. And I don’t speak about the costs of the dinner here.)
As an alternative, I would recommend a “doing something fun together” kind of a date. Something that (you can pretend) you would do alone and have fun doing it, too, but today you altruistically decided to offer her an opportunity to join you and have fun too. (Feel the difference? You are not begging, you are offering.) Do a short internet research: is there any gallery exhibition, or music concert, or public lecture, or whatever interesting in your town the next week? (Or simply ask other people what interesting activity would they recommend you the next week. You don’t have to explain why you need it. Maybe there is an information service you can call for exactly this info.) Choose something that interests you, so you will be relaxed, and later you can talk about it. She may also feel less pressure on this kind of a date.
(Beware of other-optimization, et cetera. If romantic dinners work for you, just continue doing what works. Although trying something new in addition probably would not hurt.)
A friend suggested exactly this before I asked her out. But, uh, I almost never go to galleries or lectures, or concerts unless I really really like the band, and I don’t particularly want to change that.
I’m starting to think there may be other activities (video games at home? hikes? board games unfortunately don’t really work as an “I’m going to be doing this anyway, join me if you feel like it” thing) that will work for me, though.
I’m starting to think there may be other activities (video games at home? hikes? board games unfortunately don’t really work as an “I’m going to be doing this anyway, join me if you feel like it” thing) that will work for me, though.
It depends on the girl. Does she play video games herself? Does she like hiking?
So I asked her about having scheduled dates last night. I didn’t even really mean to, I just blurted it out starting from an abstract discussion of which days of the week tend to make more sense. We still need to figure out the actual days, but she likes the concept.
This doesn’t actually solve the issue (there are things other than dates I could need/want to request) but it sure does decrease the frequency a lot.
Maybe I can just try not to request things over email or text message? It seems pretty avoidable when I can call or wait until the next time we see each other. There may still be unusual circumstances that would justify it, of course.
Maybe I can just try not to request things over email or text message?
Yes. That’s a good idea. It’s best to talk in person where you can see the bodylanguage of the other person and can see their emotional response to your request.
If you feel anxiety about your request and your girlfriend is empathic, she can help you when she sees you being anxious.
Is this the first relationship in which you’ve had these anxieties? (I assume from the post you’ve had previous relationships)
An alternative born from my own experience—that is, anecdotal evidence—is that if I think the other person isn’t that interested, I am probably right. (The last relationship in which I felt that way, the girl in question got pissed at me when I cut it off after I decided she wasn’t that interested. About a year later, she apologized, and admitted that she wasn’t; she was actually still involved with somebody else, and had started seeing him again about the time I started getting those impressions. The tip-off was that communication which had been pretty much continual started lapsing; I’d get one response for every two or three texts or e-mails sent, and shortly after that she started delaying continually/cancelling every date.) I put off breaking it off for nearly a month, assuming I was being irrational and importing anxieties from my last relationship, which followed a similar pattern culminating in my catching her in a lie and the whole thing imploding rather dramatically.
So my suspicion is that you’re not being irrational, you’re simply responding to evidence you’re not comfortable calling as such.
I strongly advise against taking this advice in this particular instance. It constitutes some insight (“beware denial”) and was a lesson that OrphanWilde needed at the time. However the overwhelmingly strong indication of Kenoubi’s words (and also the correlated symptom “best two weeks of my life”) is that Kenoubi is experiencing the oh so common effects of social anxiety and nerves that often comes when relatively little experience with dating. He doesn’t need to be taking irrational fears more seriously.
I didn’t offer any particular advice there, only suggested his fears may be rational; but it’s an important caveat that merely because a belief is rational doesn’t make that belief correct, which I suppose I should have been more clear about.
It sounds to me like the real basis of his concern may be the fact that he’s making unreciprocated requests. I have no in-depth knowledge of the situation, so I’m merely hazarding a guess here, but if he’s the one arranging all the dates (or whatever), an alleviation of his fears would require her to take a more active role in the relationship. Which may require having a serious discussion admitting his anxieties and the reasons for them. An arrangement where she has to plan every other date, or whatever, might suffice.
I’ve experienced a one way relationship before (see http://lesswrong.com/r/discussion/lw/gtv/need_some_psychology_advice/8j5k) and I really don’t think that’s what’s going on here. I think she has a perfectly reasonable and appropriate level of interest and involvement concordant with someone she’s been dating for two weeks, and I have an unreasonable and inappropriate level due, once again, to my brain chemistry and/or personal history. Calling things off right now would be a terrible idea because 1) I really have no reason to think it won’t work and 2) I’m going to have to deal with this getting-too-involved-too-soon thing in ANY relationship, so I really need to learn to manage it.
Yeah, a lot of this is about arranging dates. I was actually thinking about proposing regularly scheduled dates, because it seems like it would stress her out a bit to be responsible for them, just like it does me; ironically the main reason I haven’t mentioned this to her yet is that it itself is sort of a big scary request.
Just a note: Different people have different dates. Probably the worst (but usually the first that comes into mind) kind is the “awkward silence in a romantic restaurant” kind of date. This works best in Hollywood movies, and perhaps for experienced seducers who don’t feel any anxiety and can easily manage social situations. (For them, this is good signalling, but that’s precisely because it is costly. And I don’t speak about the costs of the dinner here.)
As an alternative, I would recommend a “doing something fun together” kind of a date. Something that (you can pretend) you would do alone and have fun doing it, too, but today you altruistically decided to offer her an opportunity to join you and have fun too. (Feel the difference? You are not begging, you are offering.) Do a short internet research: is there any gallery exhibition, or music concert, or public lecture, or whatever interesting in your town the next week? (Or simply ask other people what interesting activity would they recommend you the next week. You don’t have to explain why you need it. Maybe there is an information service you can call for exactly this info.) Choose something that interests you, so you will be relaxed, and later you can talk about it. She may also feel less pressure on this kind of a date.
(Beware of other-optimization, et cetera. If romantic dinners work for you, just continue doing what works. Although trying something new in addition probably would not hurt.)
A friend suggested exactly this before I asked her out. But, uh, I almost never go to galleries or lectures, or concerts unless I really really like the band, and I don’t particularly want to change that.
I’m starting to think there may be other activities (video games at home? hikes? board games unfortunately don’t really work as an “I’m going to be doing this anyway, join me if you feel like it” thing) that will work for me, though.
Doesn’t she share your interests?
It depends on the girl. Does she play video games herself? Does she like hiking?
So I asked her about having scheduled dates last night. I didn’t even really mean to, I just blurted it out starting from an abstract discussion of which days of the week tend to make more sense. We still need to figure out the actual days, but she likes the concept.
This doesn’t actually solve the issue (there are things other than dates I could need/want to request) but it sure does decrease the frequency a lot.
Maybe I can just try not to request things over email or text message? It seems pretty avoidable when I can call or wait until the next time we see each other. There may still be unusual circumstances that would justify it, of course.
Yes. That’s a good idea. It’s best to talk in person where you can see the bodylanguage of the other person and can see their emotional response to your request.
If you feel anxiety about your request and your girlfriend is empathic, she can help you when she sees you being anxious.
Aha, I guessed right! Mainly because planning things is hard for most people. =]