It’s low status to say one could benefit from external motivation and structure, but I suspect that for the vast majority of people and general, and also the majority of LWers, external motivation and structure are hugely valuable.
Tests are valuable to give you an idea of how you’re doing with learning stuff. IIRC, some education research suggests that spending an hour taking a test is actually substantially better for your understanding and long-term recall than spending an hour studying.
I think if you wanted to make a serious “alternative technical college education” for yourself, one way to do it would be to work on a series of technical projects that interested and motivated you, then learn whatever was necessary to complete the projects well (see this post by Robin Hanson). Probably find some local hackerspace so you don’t have to buy equipment, you get some social pressure/networking, and you can pick up some tacit knowledge from other hackers. If your projects were impressive, they could look good on your resume to the right employer (open-minded small business owner/startup founder?)
This strategy could be difficult because most people don’t have the balls to say “I am going to complete project X in a field that I know nothing about and learn whatever I need to know in order to complete the project on the fly”. You’d run a risk of getting intimidated and giving up, I think. A certain amount of confidence in your ability to understand anything given sufficient time, effort, and pestering of knowledgeable people (online or offline) would probably be necessary to make this work (relevant rationality quote). I still think going to college is a better idea for most people.
Tests are valuable to give you an idea of how you’re doing with learning stuff. IIRC, some education research suggests that spending an hour taking a test is actually substantially better for your understanding and long-term recall than spending an hour studying.
Quick question: I have used Anki mainly for memorizing words in foreign languages—is it possible to do more complex and constructive learning with Anki than just memorizing facts?
I’ve tried it and found it easy to fall in to the habit of just answering the card without thinking too hard about the underlying concepts. Making good Anki cards for highly conceptual stuff like math and computer science requires a fair amount of effort and experience with Anki, IMO.
The goal of Anki is to avoid forgetting facts. There are subjects where you don’t need to know facts. You don’t ride a bicycle by knowing facts about bicycles but by having a skill that’s in muscle memory.
When it comes to learning science, learning facts is often useful. Whenever you encouter a new fact that seems important to you and where you think it’s important to remember that fact, create an Anki card.
The goal isn’t to write complex questions. It’s to make sure that you don’t forget the basics. When we learn a new topic we often focus to much on complex stuff and don’t recognise that we will forget most of the things we learn soon thereafter. Anki exists to prevent you from forgetting important basics and make those basics common sense.
My example cards from physiology for aldosterone:
Front: hormone(released by adrenal glands to regulate kidney function) Back: aldosterone
Do these cards tell me everything there to know about aldosterone? No, they don’t. On the other hand they show me basic facts about aldosterone. If you don’t know anything about aldosterone I think you can still understand my cards but you probably won’t remember the information a year later when you don’t put them into Anki.
All these cards I listed are made in a way where the I have to type the correct answer. I’m not 100% sure that this is optimal but I feel that it helps me. When I write down an answer it’s easier to compare the answer against the correct one than comparing one in the mind against the correct one. Less cheating ;)
It also makes it clear when I can press enter to get the answer.
When it comes to creating cards about a new topic it’s helpful to think about how the knowledge is structured.
In this case we have hormones that can belong to different types and organs that are affected by hormones.
I personally like the concept of questions of the type ?(increases/decreases)?. I have the feeling that they work better than questions that ask whether a claim is true or false that I used in the past. Again I have no good data for that recommendation.
Cards of that type are usually easy to create for many subjects.
The goal when you create cards is to create them as easy as possible. When you use Anki you don’t spend most of your time with cards that you forget from time to time.
Even for knowledge that you know there a difference between whether your brain needs 1 second or 5 to access knowledge about a given basic. Learning basics well is useful.
Thanks for a really comprehensive answer even though it was only a quick question ;) Your way of using Anki is quite creative, mine is pretty close to rote memorization and I have only applied it to foreign languages so far. Maybe I should think about using it on other subjects. In all subjects, except maybe math on some level, there are some basic facts that you just have to memorize and you can’t derive the answer from the other facts you know, so it makes sense. It has to go hand in hand with trying to understand the subject at hand though, otherwise it would be just trying to guess the teacher’s password.
Btw. I also use the method of writing down my answers because I want to know that I don’t cheat ;)
In all subjects, except maybe math on some level, there are some basic facts that you just have to memorize and you can’t derive the answer from the other facts you know, so it makes sense.
Even if you could theoretically derive an answer it’s often still good to have that work precached. If you read a complicated scientific paper you need to have a lot of knowledge precached and can’t spend time to derive facts from other facts.
It has to go hand in hand with trying to understand the subject at hand though, otherwise it would be just trying to guess the teacher’s password.
Yes. That one of the reasons why it’s usually better to make your own cards than to use the deck that someone else created.
Wozniak’s rule number one: “Do not learn if you do not understand” and rule two: “Learn before you memorize”.
Theoretically I think that it’s possible to create good decks that other people can use, but it’s no easy project.
I’ve found that once you learn a complex concept, and then add its constituent parts to anki, you will still retain the concept as long as you review the simple stuff. You can also do it the other way: learn the parts and then play with them in your head to learn the concept. Adding some redundancy, i.e. reviewing the same facts in many types of questions helps.
Also Anki has really taught me that any “conceptual understanding” can still be reduced into simple parts.
It’s low status to say one could benefit from external motivation and structure, but I suspect that for the vast majority of people and general, and also the majority of LWers, external motivation and structure are hugely valuable.
Tests are valuable to give you an idea of how you’re doing with learning stuff. IIRC, some education research suggests that spending an hour taking a test is actually substantially better for your understanding and long-term recall than spending an hour studying.
I think if you wanted to make a serious “alternative technical college education” for yourself, one way to do it would be to work on a series of technical projects that interested and motivated you, then learn whatever was necessary to complete the projects well (see this post by Robin Hanson). Probably find some local hackerspace so you don’t have to buy equipment, you get some social pressure/networking, and you can pick up some tacit knowledge from other hackers. If your projects were impressive, they could look good on your resume to the right employer (open-minded small business owner/startup founder?)
This strategy could be difficult because most people don’t have the balls to say “I am going to complete project X in a field that I know nothing about and learn whatever I need to know in order to complete the project on the fly”. You’d run a risk of getting intimidated and giving up, I think. A certain amount of confidence in your ability to understand anything given sufficient time, effort, and pestering of knowledgeable people (online or offline) would probably be necessary to make this work (relevant rationality quote). I still think going to college is a better idea for most people.
That’s why you use Anki ;)
Quick question: I have used Anki mainly for memorizing words in foreign languages—is it possible to do more complex and constructive learning with Anki than just memorizing facts?
I’ve tried it and found it easy to fall in to the habit of just answering the card without thinking too hard about the underlying concepts. Making good Anki cards for highly conceptual stuff like math and computer science requires a fair amount of effort and experience with Anki, IMO.
The goal of Anki is to avoid forgetting facts. There are subjects where you don’t need to know facts. You don’t ride a bicycle by knowing facts about bicycles but by having a skill that’s in muscle memory.
When it comes to learning science, learning facts is often useful. Whenever you encouter a new fact that seems important to you and where you think it’s important to remember that fact, create an Anki card.
The goal isn’t to write complex questions. It’s to make sure that you don’t forget the basics. When we learn a new topic we often focus to much on complex stuff and don’t recognise that we will forget most of the things we learn soon thereafter. Anki exists to prevent you from forgetting important basics and make those basics common sense.
My example cards from physiology for aldosterone:
Front: hormone(released by adrenal glands to regulate kidney function)
Back: aldosterone
Front: organ(aldosterone production)
Back: adrenal gland
Front: hormone.type(aldosterone)
Back: steroid
Front: organ(aldosterone increases ion reabsorbtion)
Back: kidney
Front: aldosterone ?(increases/decreases)? reabsorption in the kidney
Back: increases
Front: aldosterone ?(increases/decreases)? blood pressure
Back: increases
Do these cards tell me everything there to know about aldosterone? No, they don’t. On the other hand they show me basic facts about aldosterone. If you don’t know anything about aldosterone I think you can still understand my cards but you probably won’t remember the information a year later when you don’t put them into Anki.
All these cards I listed are made in a way where the I have to type the correct answer. I’m not 100% sure that this is optimal but I feel that it helps me. When I write down an answer it’s easier to compare the answer against the correct one than comparing one in the mind against the correct one. Less cheating ;) It also makes it clear when I can press enter to get the answer.
When it comes to creating cards about a new topic it’s helpful to think about how the knowledge is structured. In this case we have hormones that can belong to different types and organs that are affected by hormones.
I personally like the concept of questions of the type ?(increases/decreases)?. I have the feeling that they work better than questions that ask whether a claim is true or false that I used in the past. Again I have no good data for that recommendation. Cards of that type are usually easy to create for many subjects.
The goal when you create cards is to create them as easy as possible. When you use Anki you don’t spend most of your time with cards that you forget from time to time.
Even for knowledge that you know there a difference between whether your brain needs 1 second or 5 to access knowledge about a given basic. Learning basics well is useful.
Thanks for a really comprehensive answer even though it was only a quick question ;) Your way of using Anki is quite creative, mine is pretty close to rote memorization and I have only applied it to foreign languages so far. Maybe I should think about using it on other subjects. In all subjects, except maybe math on some level, there are some basic facts that you just have to memorize and you can’t derive the answer from the other facts you know, so it makes sense. It has to go hand in hand with trying to understand the subject at hand though, otherwise it would be just trying to guess the teacher’s password.
Btw. I also use the method of writing down my answers because I want to know that I don’t cheat ;)
Even if you could theoretically derive an answer it’s often still good to have that work precached. If you read a complicated scientific paper you need to have a lot of knowledge precached and can’t spend time to derive facts from other facts.
Yes. That one of the reasons why it’s usually better to make your own cards than to use the deck that someone else created.
Wozniak’s rule number one: “Do not learn if you do not understand” and rule two: “Learn before you memorize”.
Theoretically I think that it’s possible to create good decks that other people can use, but it’s no easy project.
I’ve found that once you learn a complex concept, and then add its constituent parts to anki, you will still retain the concept as long as you review the simple stuff. You can also do it the other way: learn the parts and then play with them in your head to learn the concept. Adding some redundancy, i.e. reviewing the same facts in many types of questions helps.
Also Anki has really taught me that any “conceptual understanding” can still be reduced into simple parts.