+1 I think it’s important to keep in context the other claims about employees being treated poorly/low status. Abuse can be hard to judge from the outside because it can revolve around each individual incident being basically okay in isolation. A difficult and unfortunately common case is where both experiences are basically true. A person genuinely had an experience of abuse while the purported abuser genuinely had an experience of things seeming okay/copacetic in day to day interactions. Eg “we’ll destroy our enemies haha” can unfortunately be in a grey zone between lightheartedness, abuse, or the latter masked as the former.
After reading more of the article, I have a better sense of this context that you mention. It would be interesting to see Nonlinear’s response to the accusations because they seem pretty shameful, as is.
I would actively advise against anyone working with Kat / Emerson, not without serious demonstration of reformation and, like, values-level shifts.
If Alice is willing to stretch the truth about her situation (for any reason) or outright lie in order to enact harsher punishment on others, even as a victim of abuse, I would be mistrustful of her story. And so far I am somewhat mistrustful of Alice and very mistrustful of Kat / Emerson.
Also, even if TekhneMakre’s take is what in fact happened, it doesn’t give Alice a total pass in that particular situation, to me. I get that it’s hard to be clear-headed and brave when faced with potentially hostile or adversarial people, but I think it’s still worth trying to be. I don’t expect anyone to be brave, but I also don’t treat anyone as totally helpless, even if the cards are stacked against them.
I am sympathetic to “getting cancelled.” I often feel like people are cancelled in some false way (or a way that leaves people with a false model), and it’s not very fair. Mobs don’t make good judges. Even well-meaning, rationalist ones. I feel this way about basically everyone who’s been ‘cancelled’ by this community. Truth and compassion were never fully upheld as the highest virtue, in the end. Justice was never, imo, served, but often used as an excuse for victims to evade taking personal responsibility for something and for rescuers to have something to do. But I still see the value in going through a ‘cancelling’ process, for everyone involved, and so I’m not saying to avoid it either. It just sucks, and I get it.
That said, the people who are ‘cancelled’ tend to be stubborn hard-heads about it, and their own obstinacy tends to lead further to an even more extreme downfall. It’s like some suicidal part of them kicks in, and drives the knife in deeper without anyone’s particular help.
I agree it’s good to never just give into mob justice, but for your own souls to not take damage, try not to clench. It’s not worth protecting it, whatever it happens to be.
+1 I think it’s important to keep in context the other claims about employees being treated poorly/low status. Abuse can be hard to judge from the outside because it can revolve around each individual incident being basically okay in isolation. A difficult and unfortunately common case is where both experiences are basically true. A person genuinely had an experience of abuse while the purported abuser genuinely had an experience of things seeming okay/copacetic in day to day interactions. Eg “we’ll destroy our enemies haha” can unfortunately be in a grey zone between lightheartedness, abuse, or the latter masked as the former.
After reading more of the article, I have a better sense of this context that you mention. It would be interesting to see Nonlinear’s response to the accusations because they seem pretty shameful, as is.
I would actively advise against anyone working with Kat / Emerson, not without serious demonstration of reformation and, like, values-level shifts.
If Alice is willing to stretch the truth about her situation (for any reason) or outright lie in order to enact harsher punishment on others, even as a victim of abuse, I would be mistrustful of her story. And so far I am somewhat mistrustful of Alice and very mistrustful of Kat / Emerson.
Also, even if TekhneMakre’s take is what in fact happened, it doesn’t give Alice a total pass in that particular situation, to me. I get that it’s hard to be clear-headed and brave when faced with potentially hostile or adversarial people, but I think it’s still worth trying to be. I don’t expect anyone to be brave, but I also don’t treat anyone as totally helpless, even if the cards are stacked against them.
Neither here nor there:
I am sympathetic to “getting cancelled.” I often feel like people are cancelled in some false way (or a way that leaves people with a false model), and it’s not very fair. Mobs don’t make good judges. Even well-meaning, rationalist ones. I feel this way about basically everyone who’s been ‘cancelled’ by this community. Truth and compassion were never fully upheld as the highest virtue, in the end. Justice was never, imo, served, but often used as an excuse for victims to evade taking personal responsibility for something and for rescuers to have something to do. But I still see the value in going through a ‘cancelling’ process, for everyone involved, and so I’m not saying to avoid it either. It just sucks, and I get it.
That said, the people who are ‘cancelled’ tend to be stubborn hard-heads about it, and their own obstinacy tends to lead further to an even more extreme downfall. It’s like some suicidal part of them kicks in, and drives the knife in deeper without anyone’s particular help.
I agree it’s good to never just give into mob justice, but for your own souls to not take damage, try not to clench. It’s not worth protecting it, whatever it happens to be.
Save your souls. Not your reputation.