I think we need to clear up two terms before we can have a coherent dialogue: “fawning” and “degenerate”.
I think I used “degenerate” in a non-standard way. I did not intend to convey “causing a deterioration of your moral character”, but rather “a hollow/misadjusted/corrupted version of”.
I use “fawning” in a technical sense, referring to a trauma response where someone “plays along” in response to stress. This is an instinct targeted at making you appear less threatening, reducing the likelihood of getting disposed of due to retaliation concerns. I did not use it in the sense of “likes someone” (fawn over someone).
Regarding Arrogance, big ego, and master morals:
I am a big fan of:
going my own way, instead of conforming out of envy-fear.
having a strong “sense of self”
knowing what I want and going for it
having standards for my own and other people’s behaviour
taking joy in others celebrating your leadership
I don’t see these things as arrogant.
Here are some arrogant things:
judging others harsher when you get insecure (pushing down to avoid getting dominated)
ignoring my own faults, because I’m not willing to appear weak
thinking I’m worthy of status and fame even if I don’t provide value
pretending that I am more confident/strong than I actually feel, because that feels safer
Arrogance has a “clinginess” to it. It has a pretence to it. It has a presumptuousness to it.
Arrogance is what happens when you value “feeling powerful” (relative to others), over actually getting shit done, using power for the things it’s useful for, and serving something bigger than yourself (such as the community).
I don’t define degeneracy as immorality myself. I’m quite inspired by Nietzsches definition, which is almost the opposite of that. In short, degeneracy is a lack of healthy instincts. Healthy people love freedom, as restrinctions and rules only hinder them. Degenerate people need these rules and restrictions, for without them, they destroy themselves. Substance abusers, alcoholics, porn addicts, etc. are all examples of this. Sex is not bad as some Christians think, neither is it pure good as some progressives think. The degeneracy is in the doer. Sex can be anything from innocent to sickly indulgent. Children think nothing of nudity because they’re pure, perverts think nothing of nudity because it’s way insufficient to excite them. Think of it as the horse-shoe theory of innocence and corruption, and the reason that the concept of “balance” is superior to the good/evil worldview.
I like your definition of “fawning”! I think such playing along happens instinctual (herd instinct), but that many take it too far because of trauma. But normal upbringing/socialization is quite similar to trauma, I think. It’s normal to be afraid of talking publicly, but we’re not born with this fear. Have you read the unabombers description of oversocialization? It’s when socialization is taken further than what’s realistic. It causes all sorts of psychological problems, like suppression of emotions, projecting of ones shadow onto others, and a general fear of healthy human nature (healthy people lack restrictions, and degenerate people consider this a danger. E.g. Christians who are afraid of atheists, because they think “if you don’t believe in hell, won’t you want to hurt other people?” (notice the confession in such thoughts)
I also enjoy “going my own way”, but I will admit that it’s lonely at times. And I have given up trying to explain my moral compass to others, such a thing is almost impossible. I’m easily misunderstood as evil, unless I act happy-go-lucky. You will only be deemed a bad person if you seem to understand the cause and effect of your actions.
I agree with basically everything you’ve listed, but I think you’re inherently worthy of status, you’re just not entitled to it. Even strong self-affirmation is good, even more so if it’s based on nothing (as that makes it impossible to take it away from you). I think entitlement is bad in any amounts, no matter how justified. One should consider oneself valid by default, rather than begging others for validation. Also, considering each day an undeserved gift might be sufficient for living a happy life. Finally, I think serving something bigger than oneself is admirable iff it’s voluntary. Excuse the wordiness, I can’t compress it further.
I think we need to clear up two terms before we can have a coherent dialogue: “fawning” and “degenerate”.
I think I used “degenerate” in a non-standard way. I did not intend to convey “causing a deterioration of your moral character”, but rather “a hollow/misadjusted/corrupted version of”.
I use “fawning” in a technical sense, referring to a trauma response where someone “plays along” in response to stress. This is an instinct targeted at making you appear less threatening, reducing the likelihood of getting disposed of due to retaliation concerns. I did not use it in the sense of “likes someone” (fawn over someone).
Regarding Arrogance, big ego, and master morals:
I am a big fan of:
going my own way, instead of conforming out of envy-fear.
having a strong “sense of self”
knowing what I want and going for it
having standards for my own and other people’s behaviour
taking joy in others celebrating your leadership
I don’t see these things as arrogant.
Here are some arrogant things:
judging others harsher when you get insecure (pushing down to avoid getting dominated)
ignoring my own faults, because I’m not willing to appear weak
thinking I’m worthy of status and fame even if I don’t provide value
pretending that I am more confident/strong than I actually feel, because that feels safer
Arrogance has a “clinginess” to it. It has a pretence to it. It has a presumptuousness to it. Arrogance is what happens when you value “feeling powerful” (relative to others), over actually getting shit done, using power for the things it’s useful for, and serving something bigger than yourself (such as the community).
I don’t define degeneracy as immorality myself. I’m quite inspired by Nietzsches definition, which is almost the opposite of that.
In short, degeneracy is a lack of healthy instincts. Healthy people love freedom, as restrinctions and rules only hinder them. Degenerate people need these rules and restrictions, for without them, they destroy themselves. Substance abusers, alcoholics, porn addicts, etc. are all examples of this. Sex is not bad as some Christians think, neither is it pure good as some progressives think. The degeneracy is in the doer. Sex can be anything from innocent to sickly indulgent. Children think nothing of nudity because they’re pure, perverts think nothing of nudity because it’s way insufficient to excite them. Think of it as the horse-shoe theory of innocence and corruption, and the reason that the concept of “balance” is superior to the good/evil worldview.
I like your definition of “fawning”! I think such playing along happens instinctual (herd instinct), but that many take it too far because of trauma. But normal upbringing/socialization is quite similar to trauma, I think. It’s normal to be afraid of talking publicly, but we’re not born with this fear. Have you read the unabombers description of oversocialization? It’s when socialization is taken further than what’s realistic. It causes all sorts of psychological problems, like suppression of emotions, projecting of ones shadow onto others, and a general fear of healthy human nature (healthy people lack restrictions, and degenerate people consider this a danger. E.g. Christians who are afraid of atheists, because they think “if you don’t believe in hell, won’t you want to hurt other people?” (notice the confession in such thoughts)
I also enjoy “going my own way”, but I will admit that it’s lonely at times. And I have given up trying to explain my moral compass to others, such a thing is almost impossible. I’m easily misunderstood as evil, unless I act happy-go-lucky. You will only be deemed a bad person if you seem to understand the cause and effect of your actions.
I agree with basically everything you’ve listed, but I think you’re inherently worthy of status, you’re just not entitled to it. Even strong self-affirmation is good, even more so if it’s based on nothing (as that makes it impossible to take it away from you). I think entitlement is bad in any amounts, no matter how justified. One should consider oneself valid by default, rather than begging others for validation. Also, considering each day an undeserved gift might be sufficient for living a happy life.
Finally, I think serving something bigger than oneself is admirable iff it’s voluntary. Excuse the wordiness, I can’t compress it further.