The premise you propose is that there was no debt/obligation prior to the request/fulfilment.
There was no obligation to do that specific thing. The request having been made, there is now an obligation to do that specific thing. So it does not seem like you’re actually disagreeing with me, as far as premises go.
[social contract, etc.]
Bringing in abstractions like the social contract is unrealistic both in the cognitive sense (people don’t think like that in the moment, and in any case few actually hold any such beliefs even in general) and in the pragmatic sense (there is no actual decision to obey the social contract, nor is there any practical opportunity to break with it).
[NVC, etc.]
Yes, I was aware of this. It’s both sufficiently absurd when taken at face value, and sufficiently unethical when seen for what it really is, that I dismissed it as unnecessary to consider in this discussion. I stand by that decision.
In the meta, obligation to comply with requests exists without a present request. Similar to the obligation to not murder people under the social contract whether or not you plan to murder someone or are holding the knife.
people don’t think like that in the moment, and in any case few actually hold any such beliefs even in general
We know different people. I have heard enough times, a version of, “what would they think of me” or “I can’t break the rules”. I happen to have taught people to not care what others think. But have it inherent in my head.
absurd and unethical
Nvc subscribers do not believe it is absurd and I suspect the belief stems from the willingness to themselves subscribe to the system. Ie people who enjoy the SECOND thing. In a THIRD—I like giving gifts for me, way.
There was no obligation to do that specific thing. The request having been made, there is now an obligation to do that specific thing. So it does not seem like you’re actually disagreeing with me, as far as premises go.
Bringing in abstractions like the social contract is unrealistic both in the cognitive sense (people don’t think like that in the moment, and in any case few actually hold any such beliefs even in general) and in the pragmatic sense (there is no actual decision to obey the social contract, nor is there any practical opportunity to break with it).
Yes, I was aware of this. It’s both sufficiently absurd when taken at face value, and sufficiently unethical when seen for what it really is, that I dismissed it as unnecessary to consider in this discussion. I stand by that decision.
In the meta, obligation to comply with requests exists without a present request. Similar to the obligation to not murder people under the social contract whether or not you plan to murder someone or are holding the knife.
We know different people. I have heard enough times, a version of, “what would they think of me” or “I can’t break the rules”. I happen to have taught people to not care what others think. But have it inherent in my head.
Nvc subscribers do not believe it is absurd and I suspect the belief stems from the willingness to themselves subscribe to the system. Ie people who enjoy the SECOND thing. In a THIRD—I like giving gifts for me, way.