I can’t put persuasion to the side. That’s the whole point.
Getting to the nub of the issue is a tool in persuasion.
I disagree; the point is to find truth, and getting to the nub of the issue (which can often mean “finding the most basic point of disagreement”) is a valuable tool to that end.
Edited to add: In this particular case, where our beliefs on this issue have little opportunity to usefully direct our action, the whole point is to find flaws in our reasoning that drive us away from truth, so we can learn to correct them in more meaningful situations.
I agree that I bundled a number of concepts into “persuasion.” To make it explicit, I used “persuasion” to mean trying to change another person’s mind. Since I aspire to practice the Light Arts, that meant moving the other person’s belief towards truth.
Edited to add: In this particular case, where our beliefs on this issue have little opportunity to usefully direct our action, the whole point is to find flaws in our reasoning that drive us away from truth, so we can learn to correct them in more meaningful situations.
Exactly. Well said. I hope to learn how I err by observing how I fail to persuade.
I don’t mean to suggest that this is never an appropriate approach; I object to your suggestion that this is the only appropriate approach (and in particular in a situation like this, where it is that approach that seems to be breaking down).
It’s not that I disagree with you, so much as I don’t understand.
I could make lots of concessions about how the point you originally quoted is too simplistic. I suspect that you have a particular caveat in mind, and I suspect that I would agree with it.
I made the original statement in the context of explaining to brazil why he’s coming off like a troll.
I disagree; the point is to find truth, and getting to the nub of the issue (which can often mean “finding the most basic point of disagreement”) is a valuable tool to that end.
Edited to add: In this particular case, where our beliefs on this issue have little opportunity to usefully direct our action, the whole point is to find flaws in our reasoning that drive us away from truth, so we can learn to correct them in more meaningful situations.
I agree that I bundled a number of concepts into “persuasion.” To make it explicit, I used “persuasion” to mean trying to change another person’s mind. Since I aspire to practice the Light Arts, that meant moving the other person’s belief towards truth.
Exactly. Well said. I hope to learn how I err by observing how I fail to persuade.
I don’t mean to suggest that this is never an appropriate approach; I object to your suggestion that this is the only appropriate approach (and in particular in a situation like this, where it is that approach that seems to be breaking down).
It’s not that I disagree with you, so much as I don’t understand.
I could make lots of concessions about how the point you originally quoted is too simplistic. I suspect that you have a particular caveat in mind, and I suspect that I would agree with it.
I made the original statement in the context of explaining to brazil why he’s coming off like a troll.