Given the breadth of TVTropes, you could make a description like that about almost any group or any idea, independent of the truth of the idea. The love for narrative cut both ways. It might make people think they’re living in a story, but it’s story like element we are most prone to pick out of others people’s live too.
Nobody talks about what Eliezer had for breakfast because that’s not part of “the story we tell”. But telling a story is just another (edit:) way to say “picking out relevant details”.
Can we please get back to substantive arguments against the scary idea?
First, I’m not claiming a connection between truth and tropism, but this idea that everything is equally tropish seems wrong. Not everyone has the role of a protagonist fighting for humanity against a great inhuman evil that only they foresee, and struggling to gather allies and resources before time runs out. Yet Eliezer has that role.
Second, even though tropes apply to everyone’s lives to some degree, it matters which tropes they are. For example, someone who sees themselves as a fundamentally misunderstood genius who deserves much more than society has given them is also living a trope—but it’s a very different trope with very different results. Identifying the tropes you are living is useful—it helps in your personal branding, can teach you lessons about strategies for achieving your goal, and may show you pitfalls.
For example, I live a very similar trope set to Eliezer, which is why I notice it, and it poses many challenges in being effective, because it’s tempting to (as Nick alluded to above) play the role rather than doing the work.
Not everyone has the role of a protagonist fighting for humanity against a great inhuman evil that only they foresee, and struggling to gather allies and resources before time runs out. Yet Eliezer has that role.
No. The UFAI is nonexistent, and therefore noncombatant. I’m not sure Eliezer has even tried to make the case that UFAI is the most likely existential risk. Lots of people see serious huge risks in our future. To say nothing of the near-constant state of death. EY certainly wasn’t first with the concept of world-killing UFAI in general, arguably he’s late to the game.
I can’t think of a story in which the protagonist spend lots of time trying to do things the majority doesn’t want to try or don’t think are hard, but it sounds like a comedy.
I’m sure I’m not the only one tempted here to make up some top-level post about how Eliezer chooses what he had for breakfast in a completely rational manner, and carefully avoids biases such as how his mother raised him on boiled eggs or how delicious chocolate chips taste, but thinks things out well enough that he does not have to jump through the same logical hoops every single morning...
I’m sure I’m not the only one tempted here to make up some top-level post about how Eliezer chooses what he had for breakfast in a completely rational manner
It sounds silly, but that’s actually a nontrivial and important decision, where rationality has high returns, and where the default is to get it wrong. Everyone should consider the what-to-have-for-breakfast question explicitly, and rationally.
The more that I think about it, the more that I like the idea. It could actually be a relatively amusing cliff notes on various facets of rationality, a kind of who’s who to the memes around here (e.x. “Luminosity Bella consults her notes on how she liked what she had last week, seeing what kind of impact her introduction of cougar blood is having”).
Or it could just be like one of those angry essays Eliezer does sometimes, with such lines as “and they just THROW THE BUTTER ONTO THEIR POTATOES like it’s a friend of the family”, in which case healthy eating would be a metaphor for cyronics.
Or it could just be like one of those angry essays Eliezer does sometimes, with such lines as “and they just THROW THE BUTTER ONTO THEIR POTATOES like it’s a friend of the family”, in which case healthy eating would be a metaphor for cyronics.
I find almost everything about this sentence baffling.
Several of Eliezer’s essays have a somewhat angry tone to them, particularly those arguing that humans need to develop means by which we no longer have to die, expressing a frustration with the typical human’s resignation to death. Similarly, they are resigned to eating butter because it’s a normal kind of thing and their parents did it and just a little can’t be that bad for you.
This would probably be exactly the kind of thing that would be being opposed—i.e. that we have deep sentimental attachments to things like butter, partly due to their nature as superstimuli (although as superstimuli go, butter is pretty mild). And even if butter feels like a friend of the family, a sentimental attachment is probably not paying a ton of rent.
Eh, a sentimental attachment doesn’t necessarily have to be irrational or untested. My attachment to butter thoroughly pays rent every time it correctly predicts that butter is delicious.
Not all carbs for breakfast; some or all of it should be fat and protein. Pay attention to when you get hungry and adjust the serving size to ensure it’s not before you plan to eat next. Have a portable, nonperishable backup in case you run out of an ingredient or are in a hurry, since skipping a breakfast entirely is much worse than eating the wrong thing.
Try some different breakfast foods and pay attention to (or better, takes notes on) how you feel later in the day after having each. (Individual biochemistries vary). Pay special attention to headaches and mind fog, no matter how minor; these are almost always caused by diet somehow, though there are many mechanisms and finding the specific causes may require some experimentation.
Avoid sugar water, even if it’s fruit-themed or fruit-derived. Take a standard multivitamin/multimineral (very important, but it doesn’t matter which meal it’s with); pay no attention to whether other foods contain vitamins too. Take vitamin D unless you live close to the equator, spend lots of time outside, or confirm with a blood test that you don’t need it.
If you use caffeine, have a policy for when and how much, and be disciplined about it. Don’t get your caffeine and hydration from the same source (eg, only drinking caffeinated soda); that’ll make your intake unpredictable, which is bad. If you don’t know what the early stages of caffeine withdrawal feel like, induce it under controlled circumstances and pay attention, so you’ll know if you’ve messed up that way.
pay no attention to whether other foods contain vitamins too.
Do, however, pay attention to whether other foods contain micro-nutrients not rated as vitamins. Unless, of course, your multivitamin includes them. Obvious this is less, um, vital.
Given the breadth of TVTropes, you could make a description like that about almost any group or any idea, independent of the truth of the idea. The love for narrative cut both ways. It might make people think they’re living in a story, but it’s story like element we are most prone to pick out of others people’s live too.
Nobody talks about what Eliezer had for breakfast because that’s not part of “the story we tell”. But telling a story is just another (edit:) way to say “picking out relevant details”.
Can we please get back to substantive arguments against the scary idea?
First, I’m not claiming a connection between truth and tropism, but this idea that everything is equally tropish seems wrong. Not everyone has the role of a protagonist fighting for humanity against a great inhuman evil that only they foresee, and struggling to gather allies and resources before time runs out. Yet Eliezer has that role.
Second, even though tropes apply to everyone’s lives to some degree, it matters which tropes they are. For example, someone who sees themselves as a fundamentally misunderstood genius who deserves much more than society has given them is also living a trope—but it’s a very different trope with very different results. Identifying the tropes you are living is useful—it helps in your personal branding, can teach you lessons about strategies for achieving your goal, and may show you pitfalls.
For example, I live a very similar trope set to Eliezer, which is why I notice it, and it poses many challenges in being effective, because it’s tempting to (as Nick alluded to above) play the role rather than doing the work.
No. The UFAI is nonexistent, and therefore noncombatant. I’m not sure Eliezer has even tried to make the case that UFAI is the most likely existential risk. Lots of people see serious huge risks in our future. To say nothing of the near-constant state of death. EY certainly wasn’t first with the concept of world-killing UFAI in general, arguably he’s late to the game.
I can’t think of a story in which the protagonist spend lots of time trying to do things the majority doesn’t want to try or don’t think are hard, but it sounds like a comedy.
I’m sure I’m not the only one tempted here to make up some top-level post about how Eliezer chooses what he had for breakfast in a completely rational manner, and carefully avoids biases such as how his mother raised him on boiled eggs or how delicious chocolate chips taste, but thinks things out well enough that he does not have to jump through the same logical hoops every single morning...
It sounds silly, but that’s actually a nontrivial and important decision, where rationality has high returns, and where the default is to get it wrong. Everyone should consider the what-to-have-for-breakfast question explicitly, and rationally.
The more that I think about it, the more that I like the idea. It could actually be a relatively amusing cliff notes on various facets of rationality, a kind of who’s who to the memes around here (e.x. “Luminosity Bella consults her notes on how she liked what she had last week, seeing what kind of impact her introduction of cougar blood is having”).
Or it could just be like one of those angry essays Eliezer does sometimes, with such lines as “and they just THROW THE BUTTER ONTO THEIR POTATOES like it’s a friend of the family”, in which case healthy eating would be a metaphor for cyronics.
I find almost everything about this sentence baffling.
Several of Eliezer’s essays have a somewhat angry tone to them, particularly those arguing that humans need to develop means by which we no longer have to die, expressing a frustration with the typical human’s resignation to death. Similarly, they are resigned to eating butter because it’s a normal kind of thing and their parents did it and just a little can’t be that bad for you.
Butter’s a friend of my family.
This would probably be exactly the kind of thing that would be being opposed—i.e. that we have deep sentimental attachments to things like butter, partly due to their nature as superstimuli (although as superstimuli go, butter is pretty mild). And even if butter feels like a friend of the family, a sentimental attachment is probably not paying a ton of rent.
Eh, a sentimental attachment doesn’t necessarily have to be irrational or untested. My attachment to butter thoroughly pays rent every time it correctly predicts that butter is delicious.
And awesome.
You’d better just stay away from the bacon subreddit.
Do you have any particular tips? I’m not advanced in the field of nutrition, but this seems like as good a place as any to start.
Not all carbs for breakfast; some or all of it should be fat and protein. Pay attention to when you get hungry and adjust the serving size to ensure it’s not before you plan to eat next. Have a portable, nonperishable backup in case you run out of an ingredient or are in a hurry, since skipping a breakfast entirely is much worse than eating the wrong thing.
Try some different breakfast foods and pay attention to (or better, takes notes on) how you feel later in the day after having each. (Individual biochemistries vary). Pay special attention to headaches and mind fog, no matter how minor; these are almost always caused by diet somehow, though there are many mechanisms and finding the specific causes may require some experimentation.
Avoid sugar water, even if it’s fruit-themed or fruit-derived. Take a standard multivitamin/multimineral (very important, but it doesn’t matter which meal it’s with); pay no attention to whether other foods contain vitamins too. Take vitamin D unless you live close to the equator, spend lots of time outside, or confirm with a blood test that you don’t need it.
If you use caffeine, have a policy for when and how much, and be disciplined about it. Don’t get your caffeine and hydration from the same source (eg, only drinking caffeinated soda); that’ll make your intake unpredictable, which is bad. If you don’t know what the early stages of caffeine withdrawal feel like, induce it under controlled circumstances and pay attention, so you’ll know if you’ve messed up that way.
Do, however, pay attention to whether other foods contain micro-nutrients not rated as vitamins. Unless, of course, your multivitamin includes them. Obvious this is less, um, vital.
I just assumed Eliezer Yudkowsky eats dementors for breakfast.
And that’s a fact!