I think a substantial part of the issue here is the asymmetry created when one party is public, and one party is not.
Suppose a user is posting under their real name, John Doe, and another user is posted under a pseudonym, Azure_Pearls_172. An accusation by Azure against John can have real-world implications; an accusation by John against Azure is limited by the reach of the pseudonym. Azure can change their pseudonym, and leave the accusations behind; John cannot.
Doxxing can make a situation more symmetrical in this case. Whether or not it is merited is a complicated topic, particularly as the norms around doxxing exist for a reason.
Suppose a user assaults other users, and switches pseudonyms whenever identified to keep finding new targets—I doubt anybody would argue that doxxing a predatory member of this sort is a bad thing, in and of itself. Contrariwise, suppose a user gets annoyed with another user, and then doxxes them and accuses them in bad faith of assault. We don’t want that.
I think mixed-anonymity is basically a terrible way to run things, owing to the asymmetries involved, and in general communities should have norms that either reflect no anonymity (everybody uses their real names), or total anonymity (nobody uses their real names, and also nobody ever meets anybody else in person). If you’re mixing the cases, you’re creating the potential for abuses.
If you disagree that anonymous users should never meet in person, well—if you’re willing to meet in person, why are you choosing to be anonymous? Is anonymity a conscious and deliberate decision, such that doxxing would actually be a violation (in which case, why are you doxxing yourself?), or is it just a default option? And if you’re meeting another anonymous user—well, what is their reason for choosing to be anonymous?
Mind, I’ve met other pseudonymous users of various communities, so I can’t 100% claim to be consistent with this. But I only do so when my choice of anonymity is more “default” than “deliberate choice”—there are some pseudonyms I use which I certainly wouldn’t meet somebody under the auspices of, because they are deliberate choices, chosen to minimize exposure.
(Granted, I haven’t used them in a while, and at this point most of the opinions I shared under them are basically widely accepted today, and those that aren’t are at least socially acceptable—so, eh, it would probably be fine at this point.)
I agree that the situations you’re describing are complex, but they’re not the situation I’m trying to talk about here. I’m talking about a case where someone starts posting under a pseudonym to make accusations.
And these situations are different again from someone posting under their real name but referring to sources who agreed to be sources on the condition of anonymity
Yes, but I’m not sure in an important way? What do you see as the relevant differences between a case where Avery as ‘Alex’ writes a post about Pat, and an otherwise similar case where Avery acts as a source for a third party writing about Pat who agrees to use ‘Alex’ for them?
In the latter case it is the 3rd party driving the article, airing the accusations in a public forum, and deciding how they are framed, rather than Avery.
If, without the 3rd party, Avery would have written an essentially identical article then the differences aren’t relevant. But in the more likely case where Avery is properly a “source” for an article for which the 3rd party is counterfactually responsible, then the 3rd party also bears more responsibility for the effect of the article on Pat’s reputation etc. Fortunately, the 3rd party, not being anonymous, can be practically judged for their choices in writing the article, in the final accounting.
I think a substantial part of the issue here is the asymmetry created when one party is public, and one party is not.
Suppose a user is posting under their real name, John Doe, and another user is posted under a pseudonym, Azure_Pearls_172. An accusation by Azure against John can have real-world implications; an accusation by John against Azure is limited by the reach of the pseudonym. Azure can change their pseudonym, and leave the accusations behind; John cannot.
Doxxing can make a situation more symmetrical in this case. Whether or not it is merited is a complicated topic, particularly as the norms around doxxing exist for a reason.
Suppose a user assaults other users, and switches pseudonyms whenever identified to keep finding new targets—I doubt anybody would argue that doxxing a predatory member of this sort is a bad thing, in and of itself. Contrariwise, suppose a user gets annoyed with another user, and then doxxes them and accuses them in bad faith of assault. We don’t want that.
I think mixed-anonymity is basically a terrible way to run things, owing to the asymmetries involved, and in general communities should have norms that either reflect no anonymity (everybody uses their real names), or total anonymity (nobody uses their real names, and also nobody ever meets anybody else in person). If you’re mixing the cases, you’re creating the potential for abuses.
If you disagree that anonymous users should never meet in person, well—if you’re willing to meet in person, why are you choosing to be anonymous? Is anonymity a conscious and deliberate decision, such that doxxing would actually be a violation (in which case, why are you doxxing yourself?), or is it just a default option? And if you’re meeting another anonymous user—well, what is their reason for choosing to be anonymous?
Mind, I’ve met other pseudonymous users of various communities, so I can’t 100% claim to be consistent with this. But I only do so when my choice of anonymity is more “default” than “deliberate choice”—there are some pseudonyms I use which I certainly wouldn’t meet somebody under the auspices of, because they are deliberate choices, chosen to minimize exposure.
(Granted, I haven’t used them in a while, and at this point most of the opinions I shared under them are basically widely accepted today, and those that aren’t are at least socially acceptable—so, eh, it would probably be fine at this point.)
I agree that the situations you’re describing are complex, but they’re not the situation I’m trying to talk about here. I’m talking about a case where someone starts posting under a pseudonym to make accusations.
And these situations are different again from someone posting under their real name but referring to sources who agreed to be sources on the condition of anonymity
Yes, but I’m not sure in an important way? What do you see as the relevant differences between a case where Avery as ‘Alex’ writes a post about Pat, and an otherwise similar case where Avery acts as a source for a third party writing about Pat who agrees to use ‘Alex’ for them?
In the latter case it is the 3rd party driving the article, airing the accusations in a public forum, and deciding how they are framed, rather than Avery.
If, without the 3rd party, Avery would have written an essentially identical article then the differences aren’t relevant. But in the more likely case where Avery is properly a “source” for an article for which the 3rd party is counterfactually responsible, then the 3rd party also bears more responsibility for the effect of the article on Pat’s reputation etc. Fortunately, the 3rd party, not being anonymous, can be practically judged for their choices in writing the article, in the final accounting.