We learn a number of very interesting things in this chapter. I’ll focus on one area
-Like with horcrux sspell, abssurdity [of the stone] hidess true ssecret.
-True Sstone iss not what that legend ssayss.
-True power iss not what sstoriess claim.
-Sstone iss powerful healing device in truth.
So it’s confirmed it exists and that it isn’t what people think and that it’s power / mechanism isn’t what people think.
This is important because thinking back to Harry’s early experiments with Hermione, he discovered that if you don’t know what a spell does or have been told something completely in the wrong space the spell doesn’t work at all. If you know generally what it does, it still works as long as you pronounce it correctly. (The later is also confirmed by the ‘for enemies’ spell).
In the library Hermione told Harry that the spell is published but no one has been able to actually perform it (nominally due to difficulty). If they all think it does something other than what it actually does, that explains it and is consistent with the book’s theory of magic.
Also worth noting, Hermione was killed shortly after she began looking into the stone in earnest.
-Sstone’s ssuppossed maker wass not one who made it.
-One who holdss it now, wass not born to name now ussed.
-One who holdss Sstone iss repossitory of much lore.
-Taught sschoolmasster many ssecretss.
This part also seems very important. We get a new “major player”. This player is powerful enough that QQ couldn’t just take the stone and also powerful enough to have taught Dumbeldore many things (and Dumbeldore is thought to be the most powerful wizard in centuries). So here is a behind the scenes power on par or stronger than either major player in the last war.
Nick Flamel seems to just be the most recent alias for this other player, who has probably been around for a long time. For my money, I predict NF is really Baba Yaga (“the undying”). She’s been named dropped too often to not make an appearance, and her being NF allows her to have been around all along instead of being an unsatisfying last chapter walk on.
In the library Hermione told Harry that the spell is published but no one has been able to actually perform it (nominally due to difficulty). If they all think it does something other than what it actually does, that explains it and is consistent with the book’s theory of magic.
This depends very much on how people conceptualise the philosopher’s stone. If they go “by following these instructions, I will create a stone that produces the elixir of life and is also capable of permanently transmuting base metal into gold”, and the philosopher’s stone does not in fact do these things, then yes, they will fail.
On the other hand, if the wizard in question is aware that they have no idea how such an artefact is supposed to produce the elixir of life (or indeed what the elixir of life is beyond its expected function), or how it’s supposed to transmute things, then their thought will surely be more like “by following these instructions, I will create an artefact that will deliver great benefits unto me, its possessor”. Which ought to be sufficient to succeed if “for enemies” is.
If so, surely at least one of the many wizards to attempt the philosopher’s stone ritual(?) must have been contemplating a sufficiently broad possibility space to succeed. And yet this does not appear to have been the case.
For further evidence, consider how frequently people learn and cast the Patronus Charm despite the fact that they are completely ignorant of how it really works.
Although people are ignorant of why it works, people casting the patronus charm know exactly what it does. It makes a silver colored animal that makes fear go away and can chase dementors.
As to conceptualization, you may well be right that it could be done without understanding the mechanism but with correct conceptualization. But, I bet most wizards don’t have the right conceptualization. And worse, I bet most wizards investigating the philosophers stone have a Theory. And their theory is probably directly wrong which blocks them from being able to do it.
And worse, I bet most wizards investigating the philosophers stone have a Theory. And their theory is probably directly wrong which blocks them from being able to do it.
This does sound very likely. Although it’s worth noting that there are at least a few powerful wizards who are, if not rational, at least capable of processing evidence without leaping to conclusions—we hear them described at the conclusion of Hermione’s trial.
-One who holdss it now, wass not born to name now ussed. -One who holdss Sstone iss repossitory of much lore. -Taught sschoolmasster many ssecretss.
I’ve been under the impression through the whole story that Harry’s father’s rock is the philosopher’s stone. Is Quirrel just referring to Harry here?
The Harry we know wasn’t “born to the name now used”, or really born at all, because his current self comes from a merger of the original Harry and Voldemort.
Harry is the repository of much lore about science.
Harry has taught Dumbledore many “secrets” about muggle science and rationality. (hasn’t he? I can’t remember any specifics because I haven’t done a reread in a long time)
Even assuming that all this is accurate, why would Quirrell give Harry a third-person description of Harry, framed as if he was describing a third party?
Apart from the standalone ridiculousness of such behaviour, if Quirrell believed that Harry already had the stone, and knew that Harry was willing to use the stone for his benefit, then this sort of obfuscation would be the last thing he’d do.
Hmm I hadn’t thought the rock was the stone. That would be a great twist, but I doubt it because Dumbeldore said it was not magical to his knowledge when Harry asked him.
Also even if it is the stone, I don’t think QQ knows this.
Also, we have what seems like a sufficient explanation for the rock—assuming Albus knew that the Defense Professor mentioned trolls while he was subtly encouraging Harry to learn the Killing Curse.
We learn a number of very interesting things in this chapter. I’ll focus on one area
So it’s confirmed it exists and that it isn’t what people think and that it’s power / mechanism isn’t what people think.
This is important because thinking back to Harry’s early experiments with Hermione, he discovered that if you don’t know what a spell does or have been told something completely in the wrong space the spell doesn’t work at all. If you know generally what it does, it still works as long as you pronounce it correctly. (The later is also confirmed by the ‘for enemies’ spell).
In the library Hermione told Harry that the spell is published but no one has been able to actually perform it (nominally due to difficulty). If they all think it does something other than what it actually does, that explains it and is consistent with the book’s theory of magic.
Also worth noting, Hermione was killed shortly after she began looking into the stone in earnest.
This part also seems very important. We get a new “major player”. This player is powerful enough that QQ couldn’t just take the stone and also powerful enough to have taught Dumbeldore many things (and Dumbeldore is thought to be the most powerful wizard in centuries). So here is a behind the scenes power on par or stronger than either major player in the last war.
Nick Flamel seems to just be the most recent alias for this other player, who has probably been around for a long time. For my money, I predict NF is really Baba Yaga (“the undying”). She’s been named dropped too often to not make an appearance, and her being NF allows her to have been around all along instead of being an unsatisfying last chapter walk on.
This depends very much on how people conceptualise the philosopher’s stone. If they go “by following these instructions, I will create a stone that produces the elixir of life and is also capable of permanently transmuting base metal into gold”, and the philosopher’s stone does not in fact do these things, then yes, they will fail.
On the other hand, if the wizard in question is aware that they have no idea how such an artefact is supposed to produce the elixir of life (or indeed what the elixir of life is beyond its expected function), or how it’s supposed to transmute things, then their thought will surely be more like “by following these instructions, I will create an artefact that will deliver great benefits unto me, its possessor”. Which ought to be sufficient to succeed if “for enemies” is.
If so, surely at least one of the many wizards to attempt the philosopher’s stone ritual(?) must have been contemplating a sufficiently broad possibility space to succeed. And yet this does not appear to have been the case.
For further evidence, consider how frequently people learn and cast the Patronus Charm despite the fact that they are completely ignorant of how it really works.
Although people are ignorant of why it works, people casting the patronus charm know exactly what it does. It makes a silver colored animal that makes fear go away and can chase dementors.
As to conceptualization, you may well be right that it could be done without understanding the mechanism but with correct conceptualization. But, I bet most wizards don’t have the right conceptualization. And worse, I bet most wizards investigating the philosophers stone have a Theory. And their theory is probably directly wrong which blocks them from being able to do it.
This does sound very likely. Although it’s worth noting that there are at least a few powerful wizards who are, if not rational, at least capable of processing evidence without leaping to conclusions—we hear them described at the conclusion of Hermione’s trial.
I’ve been under the impression through the whole story that Harry’s father’s rock is the philosopher’s stone. Is Quirrel just referring to Harry here?
The Harry we know wasn’t “born to the name now used”, or really born at all, because his current self comes from a merger of the original Harry and Voldemort.
Harry is the repository of much lore about science.
Harry has taught Dumbledore many “secrets” about muggle science and rationality. (hasn’t he? I can’t remember any specifics because I haven’t done a reread in a long time)
Even assuming that all this is accurate, why would Quirrell give Harry a third-person description of Harry, framed as if he was describing a third party?
Apart from the standalone ridiculousness of such behaviour, if Quirrell believed that Harry already had the stone, and knew that Harry was willing to use the stone for his benefit, then this sort of obfuscation would be the last thing he’d do.
Unless Quirrell isn’t interested in the stone primarily here, but in tricking Harry into doing something else trying to get the stone.
Hmm I hadn’t thought the rock was the stone. That would be a great twist, but I doubt it because Dumbeldore said it was not magical to his knowledge when Harry asked him.
Also even if it is the stone, I don’t think QQ knows this.
Also, we have what seems like a sufficient explanation for the rock—assuming Albus knew that the Defense Professor mentioned trolls while he was subtly encouraging Harry to learn the Killing Curse.
No. It would be stupid for Dumbledore to hand out the philosopher’s stone that way. It doesn’t make it protected.