I think I’m probably running into some belief bias here–I’m having trouble evaluating your arguments because, as a woman with a fierce need for independence, who is really enjoying life in this day and age, I deeply disagree with your premise that less patriarchy is a Bad Thing.
I appreciate your effort to remain open to considering this. I know it is hard to overcome personal experiences when social data contradicts them. It is even harder to overcome opinions that something that is good for us is not good for society as whole, you don’t need to read Robin Hanson to see our brains aren’t built for that. One of the reasons I dislike the personal being the political is that when it does people get very very defensive about any choices they’ve made in their personal lives, even when you merely point out they don’t work out well for all people.
I’d like to discuss the role of loss of male status in connection to greater societal stratification more in either private correspondence or a separate discussion. I would ask we let that point rest for now so that it due to its controversial nature (and I’m less confident in the reasoning behind it anyway) doesn’t steal attention from other points.
But gaaaaaah, I’m so entirely grateful that I don’t live in the 1950s! And that’s despite the fact that I’ve sometimes felt like arranged marriage would be just, well, convenient–the main reason I think it would be convenient is because it would be so much less time consuming, and give me more time to do whatever the hell I want with my spare time, as opposed to spending it dating, which I find tedious.
The social science is pretty settled that people we can be with in happy relationships are relativey common. For those of us satisfied with the other person(s) in our lives like to pretend those are unprobable outcomes. They aren’t. Our actual selection process for partners also amounts to a pretty weak filter. The greater mystery is why we are so stuck signaling the traditional romantic narrative.
There is no strong utilitarian reason to implement those weak filters on the person itself if institutions can handle it better. You reap most of the benefits and you can get most of the good feelings of choice by picking between the three or four possible brides your family has suggested.
But gaaaaaah, I’m so entirely grateful that I don’t live in the 1950s!
But how much do you actually know about the 1950s? The cultural icon of “the 1950s” is not only not the territory it isn’t much of a good map either.
The social science is pretty settled that people we can be with in happy relationships are relativey common
Sources? In particular:
Why are divorce rates so high?
Why do people in this time and place expect to date around kind of a lot before finding someone they want to stay with? (Possibly they start out picky so no one works and then stop so many people do.)
Why am I attracted to only about a tenth of smart people in my age group enough to say yes if they asked me out, and only a couple percent enough to bother asking out myself? (Maybe it’s uncorrelated to long-term suitability?)
Why, when I tried dating anyone who asked me out just to see how doing things normally worked, was it invariably catastrophic? (Maybe because I was living a lie in the first place.)
I appreciate your effort to remain open to considering this. I know it is hard to overcome personal experiences when social data contradicts them. It is even harder to overcome opinions that something that is good for us is not good for society as whole, you don’t need to read Robin Hanson to see our brains aren’t built for that. One of the reasons I dislike the personal being the political is that when it does people get very very defensive about any choices they’ve made in their personal lives, even when you merely point out they don’t work out well for all people.
I’d like to discuss the role of loss of male status in connection to greater societal stratification more in either private correspondence or a separate discussion. I would ask we let that point rest for now so that it due to its controversial nature (and I’m less confident in the reasoning behind it anyway) doesn’t steal attention from other points.
The social science is pretty settled that people we can be with in happy relationships are relativey common. For those of us satisfied with the other person(s) in our lives like to pretend those are unprobable outcomes. They aren’t. Our actual selection process for partners also amounts to a pretty weak filter. The greater mystery is why we are so stuck signaling the traditional romantic narrative.
There is no strong utilitarian reason to implement those weak filters on the person itself if institutions can handle it better. You reap most of the benefits and you can get most of the good feelings of choice by picking between the three or four possible brides your family has suggested.
But how much do you actually know about the 1950s? The cultural icon of “the 1950s” is not only not the territory it isn’t much of a good map either.
Sources? In particular:
Why are divorce rates so high?
Why do people in this time and place expect to date around kind of a lot before finding someone they want to stay with? (Possibly they start out picky so no one works and then stop so many people do.)
Why am I attracted to only about a tenth of smart people in my age group enough to say yes if they asked me out, and only a couple percent enough to bother asking out myself? (Maybe it’s uncorrelated to long-term suitability?)
Why, when I tried dating anyone who asked me out just to see how doing things normally worked, was it invariably catastrophic? (Maybe because I was living a lie in the first place.)