There are some Apologetics for the LDS Church (Mormons) who make me quite frustrated with how bad their arguments are. There is one that I would like to highlight specifically here. In the Truth and Light Letter, a rebuttal to the highly popular rebuttal of Mormonism, the CES Letter, the author makes this claim about a mormon podcaster.
“Some critics, like John Dehlin from Mormon Stories, provide coaching services for people who have left the Church to help them handle the trauma of leaving their church community. Is that a conflict of interest?”[1]
Austin Fife (Original Emphasis)
What makes me frustrated here is that the author uses only one of the four major conflicts of interest, while ignoring the other three possibilities. To explain what I mean, I’ll demonstrate how I evaluate conflict of interest.
(The author also misrepresents John Dehlin’s mission with Mormon Stories, which is to remain neutral and to increase information about Mormonism, rather than to convince people to leave[2]- however that is besides the point here.)
When evaluating conflict of interest, I find that it’s helpful to evaluate a group’s gain when an individual believes their narrative- depending on if they are both telling the truth about their narrative, and if they are lying. Especially when there are two opposing groups, this tactic is useful in who has a higher motive to tell the truth, and who has the higher motive to lie.
In this situation, if the “critics” are telling the truth, then it’s reasonable to assume that they are spreading their narrative for the purpose of spreading the truth for humanity. The same can be said for the LDS Church in this situation. However, if the critics are lying about their facts and narratives, then they have very little to gain[3]. There is no central organization of critics who benefit when one believes them. If anyone does gain, it might be individual creators, like Mormon Stories, who might get the casual donation, or like the apologists suggests, a therapy session. Even then, this is no where near guaranteed, Especially when Mormon Stories has done episodes both on how to stay in the church, and how to leave with minimal impact. The LDS Church however, as an extreme amount to gain, assuming they are lying. In the doctrine, there is a principle known as “tithing” which requires members to pay 10% of their income, regardless of economic status, to retain privileges inside the church. Under a faithful perspective, this money is used on the upkeep of it’s many meetinghouses and temples, and the general furthering of the lord’s work. If they are lying though, 10% of an individuals income is an extreme sum of money, which can be used for any way seen fit for furthering their interests. When combined with the number of members the church has, it is easy to see why they are the wealthiest religious organization in the world[4].
To illustrate, here is a table of the gain each group gets, given the truthfulness of their narratives.
is true
is lying
LDS Church
Spreading the truth
10% of an individual’s income
LDS “Critics”
Spreading the truth
Ad revenue? Therapy Sessions? Book sales?
When viewed like this the difference becomes pretty clear: They both have the same incentive to tell the truth, but the LDS Church has a much, much, higher incentive to lie. This does not prove with either side “right” in any way- but hopefully any future apologetics can raise the sanity waterline and realize that the conflict of interest argument is not nearly the best argument to make.
An orthodox member could argue that any critic is an agent of satan, and therefore satan is the one who gains. Evangelicals however believe the LDS Church is controlled by satan, and so pulling members out is bringing them into the “true” light of christ. Because this argument can be used both ways, I’ll leave it out.
Evaluating Conflict of Interest
There are some Apologetics for the LDS Church (Mormons) who make me quite frustrated with how bad their arguments are. There is one that I would like to highlight specifically here. In the Truth and Light Letter, a rebuttal to the highly popular rebuttal of Mormonism, the CES Letter, the author makes this claim about a mormon podcaster.
What makes me frustrated here is that the author uses only one of the four major conflicts of interest, while ignoring the other three possibilities. To explain what I mean, I’ll demonstrate how I evaluate conflict of interest.
(The author also misrepresents John Dehlin’s mission with Mormon Stories, which is to remain neutral and to increase information about Mormonism, rather than to convince people to leave [2] - however that is besides the point here.)
When evaluating conflict of interest, I find that it’s helpful to evaluate a group’s gain when an individual believes their narrative- depending on if they are both telling the truth about their narrative, and if they are lying. Especially when there are two opposing groups, this tactic is useful in who has a higher motive to tell the truth, and who has the higher motive to lie.
In this situation, if the “critics” are telling the truth, then it’s reasonable to assume that they are spreading their narrative for the purpose of spreading the truth for humanity. The same can be said for the LDS Church in this situation. However, if the critics are lying about their facts and narratives, then they have very little to gain [3] . There is no central organization of critics who benefit when one believes them. If anyone does gain, it might be individual creators, like Mormon Stories, who might get the casual donation, or like the apologists suggests, a therapy session. Even then, this is no where near guaranteed, Especially when Mormon Stories has done episodes both on how to stay in the church, and how to leave with minimal impact. The LDS Church however, as an extreme amount to gain, assuming they are lying. In the doctrine, there is a principle known as “tithing” which requires members to pay 10% of their income, regardless of economic status, to retain privileges inside the church. Under a faithful perspective, this money is used on the upkeep of it’s many meetinghouses and temples, and the general furthering of the lord’s work. If they are lying though, 10% of an individuals income is an extreme sum of money, which can be used for any way seen fit for furthering their interests. When combined with the number of members the church has, it is easy to see why they are the wealthiest religious organization in the world [4] .
To illustrate, here is a table of the gain each group gets, given the truthfulness of their narratives.
When viewed like this the difference becomes pretty clear: They both have the same incentive to tell the truth, but the LDS Church has a much, much, higher incentive to lie. This does not prove with either side “right” in any way- but hopefully any future apologetics can raise the sanity waterline and realize that the conflict of interest argument is not nearly the best argument to make.
https://www.lightandtruthletter.org/letter/manipulation-and-fallacies#building-up-vs-tearing-down
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scPZBLTzoKs Within the first two minutes of this episode, John summarizes his aim with the podcast and makes his position very clear.
An orthodox member could argue that any critic is an agent of satan, and therefore satan is the one who gains. Evangelicals however believe the LDS Church is controlled by satan, and so pulling members out is bringing them into the “true” light of christ. Because this argument can be used both ways, I’ll leave it out.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wealthiest_religious_organizations