First point: I was quite surprised when you said that
the environment we evolved in is far harsher than the one we find ourselves in today
Our ancestral environment was harsher in terms of providing fewer means to satisfy our need-sets, yet the modern environment seems to me harsher in terms of the overall level of unhappiness. Perhaps the reason for this unhappiness is that as our need-sets grow, we become more and more entrenched in anxiety and depression as we are negatively motivated more and more of the time. I think you said some of this yourself in the post. Would you agree with this synopsis?
Second point:
When you have everything in your need-set, you generally experience positive motivation
I think we experience negative motivation not just when something is missing from our need-set, but also when we anticipate losing something that is in our need-set. If this is true then a larger need-set would lead to more negative motivation due to there being more ways for something we think we need to be taken away from us.
1. Yes, I agree with the synopsis (though expanded need-sets are not the only reason people are more anxious in the modern world).
2. Ah. Perhaps my language in the post wasn’t as clear as it could have been. When I said:
More specifically, your need-set is the collection of things that have to seem true for you to feel either OK or better.
I was thinking of the needs as already being about what seems true about future states of the world, not just present states. For example, your need for drinking water is about being able to get water when thirsty at a whole bunch of future times.
If this is true then a larger need-set would lead to more negative motivation due to there being more ways for something we think we need to be taken away from us.
If this is true then a larger need-set would lead to more negative motivation due to there being more ways for something we think we need to be taken away from us.
Yes, exactly.
So the solution is for us to give up those “needs” in the need-set that aren’t actually needed for us to do what must be done, yes? We might believe that we need a cushy mattress to sleep on, a netflix account to entertain us, and a wardrobe of clothes to wear. If we simply satisfy these needs by acquiring all these things then we don’t really become happy because now we’re just afraid of losing it all. On the other hand, if we see that these “needs” are not literal needs at all, and we actually deflate our need-set, then we become happy.
I broadly agree. Though I would add that those things could still be (positive motivation) wants afterwards, which one pursues without needing them. I’m not advocating for asceticism.
Also, while I agree that you get more happiness by having fewer negative motives, being run by positive motives is not 100% happiness. One can still experience disappointment if one wants access to Netflix, and it’s down for maintenance one day. However, disappointment is still both more hedonic than fear and promotes a more measured reaction to the situation.
First point: I was quite surprised when you said that
Our ancestral environment was harsher in terms of providing fewer means to satisfy our need-sets, yet the modern environment seems to me harsher in terms of the overall level of unhappiness. Perhaps the reason for this unhappiness is that as our need-sets grow, we become more and more entrenched in anxiety and depression as we are negatively motivated more and more of the time. I think you said some of this yourself in the post. Would you agree with this synopsis?
Second point:
I think we experience negative motivation not just when something is missing from our need-set, but also when we anticipate losing something that is in our need-set. If this is true then a larger need-set would lead to more negative motivation due to there being more ways for something we think we need to be taken away from us.
1. Yes, I agree with the synopsis (though expanded need-sets are not the only reason people are more anxious in the modern world).
2. Ah. Perhaps my language in the post wasn’t as clear as it could have been. When I said:
I was thinking of the needs as already being about what seems true about future states of the world, not just present states. For example, your need for drinking water is about being able to get water when thirsty at a whole bunch of future times.
Yes, exactly.
So the solution is for us to give up those “needs” in the need-set that aren’t actually needed for us to do what must be done, yes? We might believe that we need a cushy mattress to sleep on, a netflix account to entertain us, and a wardrobe of clothes to wear. If we simply satisfy these needs by acquiring all these things then we don’t really become happy because now we’re just afraid of losing it all. On the other hand, if we see that these “needs” are not literal needs at all, and we actually deflate our need-set, then we become happy.
Would you agree?
I broadly agree. Though I would add that those things could still be (positive motivation) wants afterwards, which one pursues without needing them. I’m not advocating for asceticism.
Also, while I agree that you get more happiness by having fewer negative motives, being run by positive motives is not 100% happiness. One can still experience disappointment if one wants access to Netflix, and it’s down for maintenance one day. However, disappointment is still both more hedonic than fear and promotes a more measured reaction to the situation.