Hmm. Before you were exposed to the LW idea of heroism, how did you feel, motivation-wise? What did you spend your time doing?
Reading books, mostly. I had goals, but not ambitions, if that makes sense. I basically thought good things would just happen to me if I was a good/intelligent person. I’ve since learned that good things won’t come to me, I need to go out searching for them and pounce on them if I want them. But doing that is just exhausting.
This sounds fine? Like, definitely underspecified as an actual plan, and maybe focusing too much on one path and neglecting all the equally valuable alternatives (I think that happens a lot with long term plans). But it doesn’t reek too badly of “I must make desperate efforts to be heroic constantly!”
It’s the intensity of the negative emotion which is a problem, more than the goals I’m aiming for. I’d like to be able to fail to achieve my best-case goals without hating myself.
This seems incompatible with “I do not, intellectually, believe that striving for this sort of heroism will be likely to have negative consequences, because I don’t believe making the effort will significantly affect my actions.” If aiming to be a hero doesn’t effect your actions, it also shouldn’t make the difference between being a “selfish couch potato” and not? But I feel like there’s a lot of vagueness here, too. Can you taboo “selfish couch potato” and describe what you fear you would actually do? And compare it to what you’re actually doing now? Versus what ideal you would do? Like, actual actions–”I get up in the morning, I go walk to the store...” Etc.
Current me spends almost no time on productive things when not at his job as a menial worker. Couch potato me would quit his job and try to get on government welfare, eating lots of food. Ideal me would quit the job and get a better one, while going back to school to complete and starting to exercise regularly.
My intellectual belief that heroism is important has served mainly only to emotionally torment me for failing, since I’m not even moderately successful in life by basically any standard you could name.
Hmm. I’m going to suggest something that I just thought of and that may or may not be helpful, but here goes:
The trouble with narratives is that once you have one, it’s really hard to go back to not having a narrative. Heroism is a narrative. It’s going to be really hard to go back to just doing whatever you were doing without interpreting it in some kind of narrative sense – but you can change your narrative. To something like “there are no heroes.” Heroism is a construct, a concept, but it doesn’t cut reality at the joints. The real world is more like one of those gritty crime novels, where morality isn’t a real thing and there are just humans, with drives both noble and corrupt, trying to survive.
This is a narrative I’ve had, but it wasn’t to solve the same problem. I have my couch-potato urges, like anyone, but I’ve never had to resort to much mental violence to suppress them. I think because I’m able to notice that when I follow the urges, and read sci-fi for ten hours instead of cooking and exercising and cleaning, then I feel physically bad (stiff, achy, etc), and mentally bad (foggy head, being bored but unable to think of a thing to do about it, etc). This is visceral enough feedback for my System 1 to get it and respond to an urge to stay in bed and read my book all day with “do you really want to do that?” (The prerequisite for this may be having good enough energy and mood overall that doing non-couch-potato things is pleasant or at least bearable. I’ve experienced times when this wasn’t the case – when I was so exhausted that trying to do anything other than read fanfic was painful. If trying to do work is always aversive for you, that may well be a medical issue – it’d be consistent with depression, chronic fatigue syndrome, etc.)
Have you read many of the “gritty crime novel” or other “gritty realism” genres? I think I have a felt sense for what that narrative is, but it’s hard to explain, because it comes from having read several hundred books in the genre.
Reading books, mostly. I had goals, but not ambitions, if that makes sense. I basically thought good things would just happen to me if I was a good/intelligent person. I’ve since learned that good things won’t come to me, I need to go out searching for them and pounce on them if I want them. But doing that is just exhausting.
It’s the intensity of the negative emotion which is a problem, more than the goals I’m aiming for. I’d like to be able to fail to achieve my best-case goals without hating myself.
Current me spends almost no time on productive things when not at his job as a menial worker. Couch potato me would quit his job and try to get on government welfare, eating lots of food. Ideal me would quit the job and get a better one, while going back to school to complete and starting to exercise regularly.
My intellectual belief that heroism is important has served mainly only to emotionally torment me for failing, since I’m not even moderately successful in life by basically any standard you could name.
Hmm. I’m going to suggest something that I just thought of and that may or may not be helpful, but here goes:
The trouble with narratives is that once you have one, it’s really hard to go back to not having a narrative. Heroism is a narrative. It’s going to be really hard to go back to just doing whatever you were doing without interpreting it in some kind of narrative sense – but you can change your narrative. To something like “there are no heroes.” Heroism is a construct, a concept, but it doesn’t cut reality at the joints. The real world is more like one of those gritty crime novels, where morality isn’t a real thing and there are just humans, with drives both noble and corrupt, trying to survive.
This is a narrative I’ve had, but it wasn’t to solve the same problem. I have my couch-potato urges, like anyone, but I’ve never had to resort to much mental violence to suppress them. I think because I’m able to notice that when I follow the urges, and read sci-fi for ten hours instead of cooking and exercising and cleaning, then I feel physically bad (stiff, achy, etc), and mentally bad (foggy head, being bored but unable to think of a thing to do about it, etc). This is visceral enough feedback for my System 1 to get it and respond to an urge to stay in bed and read my book all day with “do you really want to do that?” (The prerequisite for this may be having good enough energy and mood overall that doing non-couch-potato things is pleasant or at least bearable. I’ve experienced times when this wasn’t the case – when I was so exhausted that trying to do anything other than read fanfic was painful. If trying to do work is always aversive for you, that may well be a medical issue – it’d be consistent with depression, chronic fatigue syndrome, etc.)
I have several medical problems, yes. Changing my narrative is a good idea, thanks. Now, what will I change it to...
Have you read many of the “gritty crime novel” or other “gritty realism” genres? I think I have a felt sense for what that narrative is, but it’s hard to explain, because it comes from having read several hundred books in the genre.