What’s your motivation to spend a lot of effort to write up your arguments? If you’re right, both the post and your efforts to debunk it are quickly forgotten, but if you’re wrong, then the post remains standing/popular/upvoted and your embarrassing comment is left for everyone to see
If you didn’t have the motivation to write your arguments, why did you waste your time reading the post? If you debunk the author’s post, they’re unlikely to forget it. If you debunk numerous posts, then you may acquire a reputation. If you debunk a popular post, then many people see the debunking. You’ve also spared yourself the labor of debunking future posts based on the initial flawed idea. The reward for delivering valid and empathetic criticism is cultivating a community of truth seekers in which you and others may be willing and able to participate. Do you lack that vision? Do you have that outled elsewhere? Do you not care about developing community? Do you simply have better things to do and want to freeload on the community that others build?
Writing up a quick “clarifying” question makes more sense from a status/strategic perspective, but I rarely do even that nowadays because I have so little to gain from it, and a lot to lose including my time (including expected time to handle any back and forth)
You took the time to read the post, but you won’t write a “quick” clarifying question because you’re worried about wasting your time, and you think you have little to gain by understanding the content, so you’re depending on commenters like Said to do the job? If you have the time for just the initial question but not the back and forth, just write the first question and read the response. It takes little more time to put a brief friendly signal at the top of the comment than to leave it out. One may also practice writing in a non-contemptuous manner until it comes naturally, learn to skim posts and read only those clearly likely to be worth responding to. It is possible to deliver low-effort criticism without being a flagrant asshole about it.
If you get rid of people like Said or otherwise discourage low-effort criticism, you’ll just get less criticism not better criticism.
How do you know? Have you gathered data on this topic? Have you moderated a community? Have you observed the course of a substantial number of comparable moderation decisions in the past? What exactly is your model of the overall community reaction to such moderation decisions that leads you to this conclusion?
Low-effort and even “unproductive” criticism is an important signal
A signal of what? Important to whom? Are you really interested in what a low-effort troll would have to say in response to what you happen to write and post online?
For example I think any posts by Eliezer will always attract plenty of criticisms due to the status rewards available if someone pointed out a real flaw.
If posts worth criticicizing, due to their intellectual quality and interest of the community, will receive their due criticism, then why can’t weak and uninteresting posts can be ignored or engaged with by a charitable volunteer as a teacher might respond to a student in order to develop their capabilities? Targeting weak and forgettable posts for unwarranted criticism increases their prominence in a quite mechanistic fashion due to the high-variance upvotes, the intrigue of seeing why a comment was strongly downvoted, the fact that the LessWrong homepage boosts new and highly upvoted comments, and because the author may feel attacked and respond in an endless comment chain. There are selection effects on who stays in the community under these conditions. Solve for the equilibrium.
If you didn’t have the motivation to write your arguments, why did you waste your time reading the post? If you debunk the author’s post, they’re unlikely to forget it. If you debunk numerous posts, then you may acquire a reputation. If you debunk a popular post, then many people see the debunking. You’ve also spared yourself the labor of debunking future posts based on the initial flawed idea. The reward for delivering valid and empathetic criticism is cultivating a community of truth seekers in which you and others may be willing and able to participate. Do you lack that vision? Do you have that outled elsewhere? Do you not care about developing community? Do you simply have better things to do and want to freeload on the community that others build?
You took the time to read the post, but you won’t write a “quick” clarifying question because you’re worried about wasting your time, and you think you have little to gain by understanding the content, so you’re depending on commenters like Said to do the job? If you have the time for just the initial question but not the back and forth, just write the first question and read the response. It takes little more time to put a brief friendly signal at the top of the comment than to leave it out. One may also practice writing in a non-contemptuous manner until it comes naturally, learn to skim posts and read only those clearly likely to be worth responding to. It is possible to deliver low-effort criticism without being a flagrant asshole about it.
How do you know? Have you gathered data on this topic? Have you moderated a community? Have you observed the course of a substantial number of comparable moderation decisions in the past? What exactly is your model of the overall community reaction to such moderation decisions that leads you to this conclusion?
A signal of what? Important to whom? Are you really interested in what a low-effort troll would have to say in response to what you happen to write and post online?
If posts worth criticicizing, due to their intellectual quality and interest of the community, will receive their due criticism, then why can’t weak and uninteresting posts can be ignored or engaged with by a charitable volunteer as a teacher might respond to a student in order to develop their capabilities? Targeting weak and forgettable posts for unwarranted criticism increases their prominence in a quite mechanistic fashion due to the high-variance upvotes, the intrigue of seeing why a comment was strongly downvoted, the fact that the LessWrong homepage boosts new and highly upvoted comments, and because the author may feel attacked and respond in an endless comment chain. There are selection effects on who stays in the community under these conditions. Solve for the equilibrium.