Today’s Europe, by contrast, has a significant advantage: many Europeans, especially younger ones, can communicate in English, a lingua franca far more widespread than standard German or Italian ever were in the XIX. century.
I think this paints too optimistic picture. There is a difference between speaking English and “speaking English”. All my classmates had the same English lessons at school as me. But in my first job (where a few of my former classmates became my colleagues), when it was necessary to write something in English, it was always my task, because I was the only one who could do a decent job at producing English text that actually sounded English (as opposed to taking a Slovak sentence and mechanically replacing word by word with their English equivalents from an online dictionary). The others could read technical documentation, but I can’t imagine them reading fiction in English in their free time and enjoying it. At my current work, which is a branch of an international company, we have many managers at my age who kinda can compose a sentence in mostly-English, but if we have an online meeting with our colleagues from other branches, they arrange a subsequent private meeting with Slovak participants only, asking us what did those foreigners say at the previous meeting.
So the fraction of Slovakia’s population that could e.g. read Scott Alexander’s article on ACX to the end, and actually understand what it was about, is… maybe 5%? (Please challenge me if you have a different impression.) This can be easy to miss if you are in a hyper-intelligent, hyper-educated bubble.
I don’t know what the other EU countries are like in this aspect. Hopefully better, but I would need some data. But if they are in a similar, or only slightly better situation, then what we actually have here is 5% or maybe 10% of population which can participate in some meaningful pan-European dialog. The rest is isolated—and exposed to Russian propaganda, which is delivered to each nation properly translated. Fuck, if we all spoke the same language, at least the Russians would have a harder work creating a narrative that sounds good to everyone. Instead, they can simply give each country a version tailored specifically for them, and most of us can’t even compare notes to see how they are telling everyone exactly the thing he wants to hear (“your country is the best in the EU, you should tell those other losers to fuck off, and instead focus on cooperation with Russia that loves you most”). Uh, I digress...
Anyway, what we have here is some elites that speak a common language, and the plebs that is suspicious and resentful. That doesn’t feel like a politically sustainable situation.
And, you know, the ability to talk the same language is not the same as actually discussing the same topics, which would be necessary to have some meaningful unity. Like, maybe someone in France could write a blog in English, where he could describe how the French people see… the entire situation we are in, the EU and stuff. And I could read that blog, and get some idea about them. And maybe I could write a blog in English about how people in Slovakia see our common cultural space, and they could read it. In theory! But in practice, these things simply do not happen. If I read blogs in English, they are usually written by Americans. And when I want to blog about things in Slovakia, I blog in Slovak language. I use the English to communicate with fellow rationalists, or to write programming tutorials. I have virtually zero knowledge about France. And the French have zero knowledge about Slovakia. And maybe it is about me being especially ignorant, but I don’t think that this is the case.
To compare...
Imagine a parallel Everett branch where the International Association of Academies in 1907 adopted the proposal of using Esperanto as everyone’s second language, and it was gradually implemented in education; two years of Esperanto replacing the previously taught Latin and Greek across the whole Europe. (And somehow WW2 did not interrupt this effort.)
Well, in that Everett branch, the citizens of EU could watch the same television these days. Not because they specifically want to learn about the other EU countries, but simply because the kids want to watch cartoons, and the adults want to watch sport or soap operas, and there are enough viewers speaking the common language to make that kind of television profitable. There would be an Esperanto version of Substack, with readers and writers from all over Europe. Perhaps a clone of LessWrong, too.
I am with you here. Similar feelings. But we may be underestimating the differences between age cohorts. Here’s some data from Eurobarometer (people who can speak English):
Also, former Czechoslovakia may be a victim of its superior tradition of dubbing the movies. Elsewhere you often get movies in the original language with subtitles, or even without subtitles. But I guess YouTube is great equalizer here.
And maybe I could write a blog in English about how people in Slovakia see our common cultural space, and they could read it. In theory! But in practice, these things simply do not happen. If I read blogs in English, they are usually written by Americans. And when I want to blog about things in Slovakia, I blog in Slovak language. I use the English to communicate with fellow rationalists, or to write programming tutorials. I have virtually zero knowledge about France. And the French have zero knowledge about Slovakia.
That! Exactly what the phrase “We have made Europe; now we must make Europeans” refers to.
Hmm, recently I heard my 11 years old daughter chat with someone online in English. I certainly couldn’t do that at her age. So yeah, maybe the situation is mostly fixing itself, it just needs a decade or two more.
I was using a heuristics “young people learn English today just like my parents’ generation learned Russian… but most of them couldn’t actually speak Russian”, but I guess there is a difference that my parents’ generation mostly had ~0 opportunity and incentive to practice Russian after school, while the kids these day have the internet at hand. The practice makes a lot of difference!
I think this paints too optimistic picture. There is a difference between speaking English and “speaking English”. All my classmates had the same English lessons at school as me. But in my first job (where a few of my former classmates became my colleagues), when it was necessary to write something in English, it was always my task, because I was the only one who could do a decent job at producing English text that actually sounded English (as opposed to taking a Slovak sentence and mechanically replacing word by word with their English equivalents from an online dictionary). The others could read technical documentation, but I can’t imagine them reading fiction in English in their free time and enjoying it. At my current work, which is a branch of an international company, we have many managers at my age who kinda can compose a sentence in mostly-English, but if we have an online meeting with our colleagues from other branches, they arrange a subsequent private meeting with Slovak participants only, asking us what did those foreigners say at the previous meeting.
So the fraction of Slovakia’s population that could e.g. read Scott Alexander’s article on ACX to the end, and actually understand what it was about, is… maybe 5%? (Please challenge me if you have a different impression.) This can be easy to miss if you are in a hyper-intelligent, hyper-educated bubble.
I don’t know what the other EU countries are like in this aspect. Hopefully better, but I would need some data. But if they are in a similar, or only slightly better situation, then what we actually have here is 5% or maybe 10% of population which can participate in some meaningful pan-European dialog. The rest is isolated—and exposed to Russian propaganda, which is delivered to each nation properly translated. Fuck, if we all spoke the same language, at least the Russians would have a harder work creating a narrative that sounds good to everyone. Instead, they can simply give each country a version tailored specifically for them, and most of us can’t even compare notes to see how they are telling everyone exactly the thing he wants to hear (“your country is the best in the EU, you should tell those other losers to fuck off, and instead focus on cooperation with Russia that loves you most”). Uh, I digress...
Anyway, what we have here is some elites that speak a common language, and the plebs that is suspicious and resentful. That doesn’t feel like a politically sustainable situation.
And, you know, the ability to talk the same language is not the same as actually discussing the same topics, which would be necessary to have some meaningful unity. Like, maybe someone in France could write a blog in English, where he could describe how the French people see… the entire situation we are in, the EU and stuff. And I could read that blog, and get some idea about them. And maybe I could write a blog in English about how people in Slovakia see our common cultural space, and they could read it. In theory! But in practice, these things simply do not happen. If I read blogs in English, they are usually written by Americans. And when I want to blog about things in Slovakia, I blog in Slovak language. I use the English to communicate with fellow rationalists, or to write programming tutorials. I have virtually zero knowledge about France. And the French have zero knowledge about Slovakia. And maybe it is about me being especially ignorant, but I don’t think that this is the case.
To compare...
Imagine a parallel Everett branch where the International Association of Academies in 1907 adopted the proposal of using Esperanto as everyone’s second language, and it was gradually implemented in education; two years of Esperanto replacing the previously taught Latin and Greek across the whole Europe. (And somehow WW2 did not interrupt this effort.)
Well, in that Everett branch, the citizens of EU could watch the same television these days. Not because they specifically want to learn about the other EU countries, but simply because the kids want to watch cartoons, and the adults want to watch sport or soap operas, and there are enough viewers speaking the common language to make that kind of television profitable. There would be an Esperanto version of Substack, with readers and writers from all over Europe. Perhaps a clone of LessWrong, too.
That is the thing we don’t have.
I am with you here. Similar feelings. But we may be underestimating the differences between age cohorts. Here’s some data from Eurobarometer (people who can speak English):
Also, former Czechoslovakia may be a victim of its superior tradition of dubbing the movies. Elsewhere you often get movies in the original language with subtitles, or even without subtitles. But I guess YouTube is great equalizer here.
That! Exactly what the phrase “We have made Europe; now we must make Europeans” refers to.
Hmm, recently I heard my 11 years old daughter chat with someone online in English. I certainly couldn’t do that at her age. So yeah, maybe the situation is mostly fixing itself, it just needs a decade or two more.
I was using a heuristics “young people learn English today just like my parents’ generation learned Russian… but most of them couldn’t actually speak Russian”, but I guess there is a difference that my parents’ generation mostly had ~0 opportunity and incentive to practice Russian after school, while the kids these day have the internet at hand. The practice makes a lot of difference!