This may shed light on the phenomenon and start value judgement-fuelled arguments in equal measure: what works are we “supposed to like” in the Less Wrong community?
I may get the ball rolling by mentioning that although I like GEB and think it has plenty of merit, I think it’s ridiculously non-commensurate with the amount of praise it receives.
what works are we “supposed to like” in the Less Wrong community?
Primarily HP:MoR and anime. And anything else, but only if we can find something interesting to say about it from a rationalist point of view. As grouchymusicologist says of the Grosse Fuge, gushing adulation on its own, even of HP:MoR, will not earn LessWrong points.
Agreed about GEB. It appears that the more someone already knows about mathematical logic, the less highly they rate GEB, to the point of weary eye-rolling from professionals in the field.
It appears that the more someone already knows about mathematical logic, the less highly they rate GEB, to the point of weary eye-rolling from professionals in the field.
That’s why you’re supposed to read it in high school.
Right. My impression was that it was okay to like anime, but that we should feel embarrassed about it because while we are watching cartoons we could be solving the FAI problem or taking a second job in order to donate to Village Reach.
As a fairly new member at Lesswrong, I’ve not until now taken to reading Eliezer’s fanfiction Harry Potter and the Arts of Rationality, but the manga/amine Death Note gets taken up there, seemingly on par with any other form of media. It’s the second time manga/anime’s hinted at as a source of inspiration.
You COULD solve the FAI problem, but you need time to do other things too, and then the medium is of far less importance than the message. After all, if another medium can be more effective in delivering the same message—a film as opposed to a book, wouldn’t READING be worse than anime since you could be spending that extra time working instead?
I’m not sure you’re supposed to like anime, or at least people don’t talk much (at all?) about liking it. However, a substantial background in anime (something I don’t have) seems to be assumed.
Anime references seem to be part of the common currency here, although I haven’t seen much and what I have has not awakened my enthusiasm. I even watched all of Fate/Stay Night on YouTube, and The Melancholy Of Haruhi Suzumiya on DVD, since Eliezer had mentioned them from time to time; but I found less in them than he did.
The only anime I’ve really enjoyed is Fullmetal Alchemist . I suspect there are, in fact, plenty of people on LW with no interest in anime—that just passes unnoticed because they simply remain silent when the subject comes up.
I know that what I’ve seen is only part of the F/SN canon (and the same goes for Haruhi Suzumiya), but Eliezer hasn’t mentioned speaking Japanese, so what did he watch?
Do experts dislike GEB because it covers material they think is obvious and/or because they think it’s wrong? Or because non-experts keep talking about it to them?
Because—so I understand, and I am not an expert—they think it is wrong. Not by any means an undifferentiated heap of nonsense from beginning to end, but wrong enough, in the bits that the naive go geewhizgollygoshwowgeehay over and think they learned something from.
I recall the late Torkel Franzén, undoubtedly an expert, having some strong criticisms of it on sci.logic back in the day, but I don’t remember details.
I spoke with my supervisor in college, a composer, about this. He’s made some attempts at reading Hofstader, and said he found that the sections about music were just uninteresting and obvious to a trained musician.
I’ve read Hofstader’s article on the music of Chopin, and found it interesting, but not particularly new.
I think you have to get a fair amount of training in music theory before it’s that uninteresting and obvious, though, which most of the audience of the book isn’t going to have. There may be some readers to whom all of the sections were uninteresting and obvious; I suppose it’s just not the book for them. (I stumbled across it when most of the material was still new to me, which is probably the best time to read it.)
This may shed light on the phenomenon and start value judgement-fuelled arguments in equal measure: what works are we “supposed to like” in the Less Wrong community?
I may get the ball rolling by mentioning that although I like GEB and think it has plenty of merit, I think it’s ridiculously non-commensurate with the amount of praise it receives.
Primarily HP:MoR and anime. And anything else, but only if we can find something interesting to say about it from a rationalist point of view. As grouchymusicologist says of the Grosse Fuge, gushing adulation on its own, even of HP:MoR, will not earn LessWrong points.
Agreed about GEB. It appears that the more someone already knows about mathematical logic, the less highly they rate GEB, to the point of weary eye-rolling from professionals in the field.
That’s why you’re supposed to read it in high school.
Gosh I’ve been reading LessWrong since before it existed and I didn’t realize I was supposed to like anime.
Right. My impression was that it was okay to like anime, but that we should feel embarrassed about it because while we are watching cartoons we could be solving the FAI problem or taking a second job in order to donate to Village Reach.
As a fairly new member at Lesswrong, I’ve not until now taken to reading Eliezer’s fanfiction Harry Potter and the Arts of Rationality, but the manga/amine Death Note gets taken up there, seemingly on par with any other form of media. It’s the second time manga/anime’s hinted at as a source of inspiration.
You COULD solve the FAI problem, but you need time to do other things too, and then the medium is of far less importance than the message. After all, if another medium can be more effective in delivering the same message—a film as opposed to a book, wouldn’t READING be worse than anime since you could be spending that extra time working instead?
I’m not sure you’re supposed to like anime, or at least people don’t talk much (at all?) about liking it. However, a substantial background in anime (something I don’t have) seems to be assumed.
Anime references seem to be part of the common currency here, although I haven’t seen much and what I have has not awakened my enthusiasm. I even watched all of Fate/Stay Night on YouTube, and The Melancholy Of Haruhi Suzumiya on DVD, since Eliezer had mentioned them from time to time; but I found less in them than he did.
The only anime I’ve really enjoyed is Fullmetal Alchemist . I suspect there are, in fact, plenty of people on LW with no interest in anime—that just passes unnoticed because they simply remain silent when the subject comes up.
If you’re a Transhumanist, you should give Ghost in the Shell: Standalone Complex a try. It’s excellent Postcyberpunk in general.
Do you like anime? [pollid:72]
The “true” Fate/Stay Night is an interactive videogame, which has never been translated into English in an official release.
I know that what I’ve seen is only part of the F/SN canon (and the same goes for Haruhi Suzumiya), but Eliezer hasn’t mentioned speaking Japanese, so what did he watch?
Goetz said ‘official’; very popular VNs often get fan translations. It’s a safe bet that anything by Typemoon has been fan translated.
I personally found the original Haruhi Suzumiya novels and stories to be superior to the anime.
Get out. Heretic.
Do experts dislike GEB because it covers material they think is obvious and/or because they think it’s wrong? Or because non-experts keep talking about it to them?
Because—so I understand, and I am not an expert—they think it is wrong. Not by any means an undifferentiated heap of nonsense from beginning to end, but wrong enough, in the bits that the naive go geewhizgollygoshwowgeehay over and think they learned something from.
I recall the late Torkel Franzén, undoubtedly an expert, having some strong criticisms of it on sci.logic back in the day, but I don’t remember details.
I spoke with my supervisor in college, a composer, about this. He’s made some attempts at reading Hofstader, and said he found that the sections about music were just uninteresting and obvious to a trained musician.
I’ve read Hofstader’s article on the music of Chopin, and found it interesting, but not particularly new.
I think you have to get a fair amount of training in music theory before it’s that uninteresting and obvious, though, which most of the audience of the book isn’t going to have. There may be some readers to whom all of the sections were uninteresting and obvious; I suppose it’s just not the book for them. (I stumbled across it when most of the material was still new to me, which is probably the best time to read it.)
As well as anime a background in ‘classic’ scifi seems to be assumed. (e.g. references to Asimov are made without explanation).