My primary deontological rule: When there exist counterfactual possible futures where the expected number of deaths is lower than all other possible futures, always take the course of action which leads to this less-expected-deaths future. (In simple words: Do Not Kill, where inaction that leads to death is considered Killing).
I suspect that defining deontology as obeying the single rule “maximize utility” would be a non-central redefinition of the term. something most deontologists would find unacceptable.
The simplified “Do Not Kill” formulation sounds very much like most deontological rules I’ve heard of (AFAIK, “Do not kill.” is a bread-and-butter standard deontological rule). It also happens to be a rule which I explicitly attempt to implement in my everyday life in exactly the format I’ve exposed—it’s not just a toy example, this is actually my primary “deontological” rule as far as I can tell.
And to me there is no difference between “Pull the trigger” or “Remain immobile” when both are extremely likely to lead to the death of someone. To me, both are “Kill”. So if not pulling the trigger leads to one death, and pulling the trigger leads to three deaths, both options are horrible, but I still really prefer not pulling the trigger.
So if for some inexplicable reason it’s really certain that the fat man will save the workers and that there is no better solution (this is an extremely unlikely proposition, and by default would not trust myself to have searched the whole space of possible options), then I would prefer pushing the fat man.
If I considered standing by and watching people die because I did nothing to not be “Kill”, then I would enforce that rule, and my utility function would also different. And then I wouldn’t push the fat man either way, whether I calculate it with utility functions or whether I follow the rule “Do Not Kill”.
I agree that it’s non-central, but IME most “central” rules I’ve heard of are really simple wordings that obfuscate the complexity and black boxes that are really going on in the human brain. At the base level, “do not kill” and “do not steal” are extremely complex. I trust that this part isn’t controversial except in naive philosophical journals of armchair philosophizing.
to me there is no difference between “Pull the trigger” or “Remain immobile” when both are extremely likely to lead to the death of someone. To me, both are “Kill”.
I believe that this is where many deontologists would label you a consequentialist.
most “central” rules I’ve heard of are really simple wordings that obfuscate the complexity and black boxes that are really going on in the human brain. At the base level, “do not kill” and “do not steal” are extremely complex. I trust that this part isn’t controversial except in naive philosophical journals of armchair philosophizing.
There are certainly the complex edge cases, like minimum necessary self-defense and such, but in most scenarios the application of the rules is pretty simple. Moreover, “inaction = negative action” is quite non-standard. In fact, even if I believe that in your example pushing the fat man would be the “right thing to do”, I do not alieve it (i.e. I would probably not do it if push came to shove, so to speak).
I believe that this is where many deontologists would label you a consequentialist.
With all due respect to all parties involved, if that’s how it works I would label the respective hypothetical individuals who would label me that “a bunch of hypocrites”. They’re no less consequentialist, in my view, since they hide behind words the fact that they have to make the assumption that pulling a trigger will lead to the consequence of a bullet coming out of it which will lead to the complex consequence of someone’s life ending.
I wish I could be more clear and specific, but it is difficult to discuss and argue all the concepts I have in mind as they are not all completely clear to me, and the level of emotional involvement I have in the whole topic of morality (as, I expect, do most people) along with the sheer amount of fun I’m having in here are certainly not helping mental clarity and debiasing. (yes, I find discussions, arguments, debates etc. of this type quite fun, most of the time)
In fact, even if I believe that in your example pushing the fat man would be the “right thing to do”, I do not alieve it (i.e. I would probably not do it if push came to shove, so to speak).
I’m not sure it’s just a question of not alieving it. There are many good reasons not to believe evidence that this will work, and even more good reasons to believe there is probably a better option, and many reasons why it could be extremely detrimental to you in the long term to push down a fat man onto train tracks, and if push come to shove it might end up being the more rational action in a real-life situation similar to the thought experiment.
I suspect that defining deontology as obeying the single rule “maximize utility” would be a non-central redefinition of the term. something most deontologists would find unacceptable.
The simplified “Do Not Kill” formulation sounds very much like most deontological rules I’ve heard of (AFAIK, “Do not kill.” is a bread-and-butter standard deontological rule). It also happens to be a rule which I explicitly attempt to implement in my everyday life in exactly the format I’ve exposed—it’s not just a toy example, this is actually my primary “deontological” rule as far as I can tell.
And to me there is no difference between “Pull the trigger” or “Remain immobile” when both are extremely likely to lead to the death of someone. To me, both are “Kill”. So if not pulling the trigger leads to one death, and pulling the trigger leads to three deaths, both options are horrible, but I still really prefer not pulling the trigger.
So if for some inexplicable reason it’s really certain that the fat man will save the workers and that there is no better solution (this is an extremely unlikely proposition, and by default would not trust myself to have searched the whole space of possible options), then I would prefer pushing the fat man.
If I considered standing by and watching people die because I did nothing to not be “Kill”, then I would enforce that rule, and my utility function would also different. And then I wouldn’t push the fat man either way, whether I calculate it with utility functions or whether I follow the rule “Do Not Kill”.
I agree that it’s non-central, but IME most “central” rules I’ve heard of are really simple wordings that obfuscate the complexity and black boxes that are really going on in the human brain. At the base level, “do not kill” and “do not steal” are extremely complex. I trust that this part isn’t controversial except in naive philosophical journals of armchair philosophizing.
I believe that this is where many deontologists would label you a consequentialist.
There are certainly the complex edge cases, like minimum necessary self-defense and such, but in most scenarios the application of the rules is pretty simple. Moreover, “inaction = negative action” is quite non-standard. In fact, even if I believe that in your example pushing the fat man would be the “right thing to do”, I do not alieve it (i.e. I would probably not do it if push came to shove, so to speak).
With all due respect to all parties involved, if that’s how it works I would label the respective hypothetical individuals who would label me that “a bunch of hypocrites”. They’re no less consequentialist, in my view, since they hide behind words the fact that they have to make the assumption that pulling a trigger will lead to the consequence of a bullet coming out of it which will lead to the complex consequence of someone’s life ending.
I wish I could be more clear and specific, but it is difficult to discuss and argue all the concepts I have in mind as they are not all completely clear to me, and the level of emotional involvement I have in the whole topic of morality (as, I expect, do most people) along with the sheer amount of fun I’m having in here are certainly not helping mental clarity and debiasing. (yes, I find discussions, arguments, debates etc. of this type quite fun, most of the time)
I’m not sure it’s just a question of not alieving it. There are many good reasons not to believe evidence that this will work, and even more good reasons to believe there is probably a better option, and many reasons why it could be extremely detrimental to you in the long term to push down a fat man onto train tracks, and if push come to shove it might end up being the more rational action in a real-life situation similar to the thought experiment.