so I think it should require strong evidence before people can assert it.
That a valid opinion but “other people should provide more evidence when they make claims on facebook” in not a good basis for a post on LW when arguing against a political opinion.
When addressing bad arguments made on facebook it’s your burden to steelman them if you want to have a discussion about them on LW.
it’s probably not true that almost everyone seemed convinced of the claim I was talking about, but any person who has normal conversations should be able to recognize that kind of rhetorical hyperbole when he sees
Engaging in hyperbole instead of rational discussion is a choice. You made it. Hyperbole doesn’t help rational thinking about the subject.
Removing hyperbole from political discussions on LW is useful. Removing posts that engage in too much of it is useful.
Now, I agree with you that my tone in that post didn’t invite charity and that rhetorical hyperbole doesn’t help the argument, but that’s not a reason to be voluntarily dense.
If you want to submit your posts to LW, you should expect to have them judged by LW’s rhetoric standards. If you want to play with different rhetoric standards there are many fora on the internet who have other standards.
Engaging in hyperbole instead of rational discussion is a choice.
I don’t think the kind of rhetorical hyperbole I’m using in my post, that any normal person can recognize as such, is incompatible with rational discussion. Other than that, what you say is fair enough.
(On another topic, you’re using the verb “steelman”, which I think you already used before. I had never encountered this word before. I’m guessing that it’s local jargon for the opposite of “to strawman”, meaning something like “making the position you attack as strong as possible”?)
Yes. You have that correct. Just because someone present an argument that may be week via their presentation does not mean the argument definitely does not have a stronger root. You should correct the argument to be stronger, then be able to defeat it anyway (provided you are right about things).
These things often end up on the lesswrong wiki. It’s an ongoing process to write everything up. Often if you ask, or google, or lesswrong search for it, the original post will come up.
(On another topic, you’re using the verb “steelman”, which I think you already used before. I had never encountered this word before. I’m guessing that it’s local jargon for the opposite of “to strawman”, meaning something like “making the position you attack as strong as possible”?)
Since hyperbole is only loosely connected with evaluating evidence, I’m not convinced it is compatible with rational discussion, at least as that term is generally understood in this community.
That a valid opinion but “other people should provide more evidence when they make claims on facebook” in not a good basis for a post on LW when arguing against a political opinion.
When addressing bad arguments made on facebook it’s your burden to steelman them if you want to have a discussion about them on LW.
Engaging in hyperbole instead of rational discussion is a choice. You made it. Hyperbole doesn’t help rational thinking about the subject.
Removing hyperbole from political discussions on LW is useful. Removing posts that engage in too much of it is useful.
If you want to submit your posts to LW, you should expect to have them judged by LW’s rhetoric standards. If you want to play with different rhetoric standards there are many fora on the internet who have other standards.
I don’t think the kind of rhetorical hyperbole I’m using in my post, that any normal person can recognize as such, is incompatible with rational discussion. Other than that, what you say is fair enough.
(On another topic, you’re using the verb “steelman”, which I think you already used before. I had never encountered this word before. I’m guessing that it’s local jargon for the opposite of “to strawman”, meaning something like “making the position you attack as strong as possible”?)
Yes. You have that correct. Just because someone present an argument that may be week via their presentation does not mean the argument definitely does not have a stronger root. You should correct the argument to be stronger, then be able to defeat it anyway (provided you are right about things).
Is there a glossary of your jargon somewhere?
These things often end up on the lesswrong wiki. It’s an ongoing process to write everything up. Often if you ask, or google, or lesswrong search for it, the original post will come up.
Thanks, I hadn’t noticed that there was a wiki.
Humans easily think in terms of black and white. It takes effort to think in shades of gray. This kind of hyperbole primes for black/white thinking.
Yes. More details are found at http://lesswrong.com/lw/85h/better_disagreement/
Since hyperbole is only loosely connected with evaluating evidence, I’m not convinced it is compatible with rational discussion, at least as that term is generally understood in this community.