As I mentioned on the facebook chain; Australia has plenty of experience living in and dealing with drought. This is a known problem with known solutions. No further research/effort is necessary. (as does Israel, and several other desert nations)
While it may be argued that the answers are known but not by the right people; trying to educate those who should already know about solutions or options is going to be a ridiculously futile challenge, and that doesn’t seem to be where you are looking to solve the problem anyway.
To make an analogy to another field; you sound like a chemist saying that atoms seem to have all these properties and it would be really great if we could figure them out and find fundamental building blocks of atoms. (in this analogy I would be a physicist who has no idea why you keep harping on about commonly known things)
Your “drought” is my Tuesdays. And I am a civilian in terms of drought knowledge!
I mean minimally we could just talk about it to get the word out. I think people are being pretty unreasonable here.
trying to educate those who should already know about solutions or options is going to be a ridiculously futile challenge, and that doesn’t seem to be where you are looking to solve the problem anyway.
Then we can just pivot and have it be a thread to inform those who do not know.
Being unreasonable how? Unless you actually live there and are currently being affected by it, it is -not an important problem-. It is not a life or death situation. There is enough water for everybody to drink, flush toilets, and shower.
What there isn’t, is enough water to do all that and grow subsidized water inefficient crops that shouldn’t have been planted in the same place. That has been a known issue for at least a decade, and California elected not to fix that issue when it would have been easier. Now it will be harder and more painful, but it’s not catastrophic by any means. If anything, this is pretty much the minimum required level of pain to get anything done in California anyway.
That has been a known issue for at least a decade, and California elected not to fix that issue when it would have been easier.
So doesn’t that make this issue appropriate for a blog devoted to rational decision making? Plus, global warming could create massive water shortages in China and India so over the long run figuring out rational ways of politically dealing with this issue is important.
Plus, global warming could create massive water shortages in China and India so over the long run figuring out rational ways of politically dealing with this issue is important.
The political system in California is radically different then the one in China. Political solutions are likely to look different.
Impacts from recent climate-related extremes, such as heat waves, droughts, floods, cyclones, and wildfires, reveal significant
vulnerability and exposure of some ecosystems and many human systems to current climate variability (very high confidence).
Impacts of such climate-related extremes include alteration of ecosystems, disruption of food production and water supply, damage to infrastructure and settlements, morbidity and mortality, and consequences for mental health and human well-being. For countries at all levels of development, these impacts are consistent with a significant lack of preparedness for current climate variability in some sectors.
A few pages afterwards they list high confidence for climate change attributed water issues in the US West Coast.
The IPCC report is a really nice document and might be one of the best sources for understanding climate change.
FWIW, [I heard that] arid ecosystems might arise from cooler and drier climate, not only warmer and drier ones. Thus, if global warming makes Gulf Stream disappear and it leads to cooling of some areas it used to affect, they may become arid geologically soon. But I am not an expert, this is just how I imagine it could happen.
I think that in some parts of the world, for example Maritime Antarctica, it will plausibly grow wetter, and in others, like Europe, drier. On average.
Yes, if you ask a global warming expert whether some observation confirms his theory, he’ll say yes, even if yesterday he said the opposite observation confirms it.
How come we can talk about fiction threads and risk in far mode but not this? Even if it is a political situation we can still discuss it. We talk about all sorts of x-risk this and that, I think it’s more than alright to discussion a drought affecting where the most of us live.
For me personally, it’s because this is completely, utterly, a political problem. Only political solutions will fix it. That puts it pretty firmly in the ‘uninteresting’ category, and as it’s politics I’d rather not see it on LW.
However, there is a way to slightly change the topic to make it interesting: just go out one meta-level. Instead of worrying about the current stupidity, talk about the x-risk of politics in general. Use this scenario as an example or case study of how political failure is/can/will be a problem for the human race. Use this scenario to evaluate new structures and apply existing best practices to determine what a proper outcome should be.
Finding ways to structure society in the future such that this sort of situation is less likely? Now that’s interesting! Discussing governance structures capable of resolving these kinds of situations when they come up? Also very interesting. Discussing the current problem? Not really very interesting at all.
Now that’s interesting! Discussing governance structures capable of resolving these kinds of situations when they come up? Also very interesting. Discussing the current problem? Not really very interesting at all.
Then just start talking about it. I’m very happy to respond and talk about stuff like that, it definitely does sound interesting.
fastest 2 ways to get the word out;
Make a website describing drought and some good solutions to help out. brand it as a NFP,
i.e. shower heads, not running a tap while brushing your teeth, aethetic lawns that are not grass, water saving technology for farming systems. maximise for “saving water is saving money is saving the environment” win-win-win messages.
print 10,000 flyers and hand them out to people. (at 100/day thats gonna take a while)
pay for online ads targetting the geographic area which point to water saving website.
bonus:
offer a glass of “saved” water to politicians. “This water was not wasted on ugly grass so that now we can drink it. This water was saved because we handed out shower timers, isn’t it great that water is freely available and we treat our resources with respect”
call local politicians; encourage them to put out water saving propaganda. create a mockup and offer to them for free.
Is the drought personally effecting you?
As I mentioned on the facebook chain; Australia has plenty of experience living in and dealing with drought. This is a known problem with known solutions. No further research/effort is necessary. (as does Israel, and several other desert nations)
While it may be argued that the answers are known but not by the right people; trying to educate those who should already know about solutions or options is going to be a ridiculously futile challenge, and that doesn’t seem to be where you are looking to solve the problem anyway.
To make an analogy to another field; you sound like a chemist saying that atoms seem to have all these properties and it would be really great if we could figure them out and find fundamental building blocks of atoms. (in this analogy I would be a physicist who has no idea why you keep harping on about commonly known things)
Your “drought” is my Tuesdays. And I am a civilian in terms of drought knowledge!
I mean minimally we could just talk about it to get the word out. I think people are being pretty unreasonable here.
Then we can just pivot and have it be a thread to inform those who do not know.
Being unreasonable how? Unless you actually live there and are currently being affected by it, it is -not an important problem-. It is not a life or death situation. There is enough water for everybody to drink, flush toilets, and shower.
What there isn’t, is enough water to do all that and grow subsidized water inefficient crops that shouldn’t have been planted in the same place. That has been a known issue for at least a decade, and California elected not to fix that issue when it would have been easier. Now it will be harder and more painful, but it’s not catastrophic by any means. If anything, this is pretty much the minimum required level of pain to get anything done in California anyway.
So doesn’t that make this issue appropriate for a blog devoted to rational decision making? Plus, global warming could create massive water shortages in China and India so over the long run figuring out rational ways of politically dealing with this issue is important.
The political system in California is radically different then the one in China. Political solutions are likely to look different.
How would global warming create water shortages? Warmer weather means stronger monsoons, according to the geological record.
Climate change is more than just warming.
The IPCC report says:
A few pages afterwards they list high confidence for climate change attributed water issues in the US West Coast.
The IPCC report is a really nice document and might be one of the best sources for understanding climate change.
LOL
FWIW, [I heard that] arid ecosystems might arise from cooler and drier climate, not only warmer and drier ones. Thus, if global warming makes Gulf Stream disappear and it leads to cooling of some areas it used to affect, they may become arid geologically soon. But I am not an expert, this is just how I imagine it could happen.
So would you find the reverse, i.e., climates becoming wetter due to global warming, equally plausible?
I think that in some parts of the world, for example Maritime Antarctica, it will plausibly grow wetter, and in others, like Europe, drier. On average.
I’m not sure, but I heard this and asked an expert I know (an economist who studies global warming) who confirmed it.
Yes, if you ask a global warming expert whether some observation confirms his theory, he’ll say yes, even if yesterday he said the opposite observation confirms it.
How come we can talk about fiction threads and risk in far mode but not this? Even if it is a political situation we can still discuss it. We talk about all sorts of x-risk this and that, I think it’s more than alright to discussion a drought affecting where the most of us live.
For me personally, it’s because this is completely, utterly, a political problem. Only political solutions will fix it. That puts it pretty firmly in the ‘uninteresting’ category, and as it’s politics I’d rather not see it on LW.
However, there is a way to slightly change the topic to make it interesting: just go out one meta-level. Instead of worrying about the current stupidity, talk about the x-risk of politics in general. Use this scenario as an example or case study of how political failure is/can/will be a problem for the human race. Use this scenario to evaluate new structures and apply existing best practices to determine what a proper outcome should be.
Finding ways to structure society in the future such that this sort of situation is less likely? Now that’s interesting! Discussing governance structures capable of resolving these kinds of situations when they come up? Also very interesting. Discussing the current problem? Not really very interesting at all.
Then just start talking about it. I’m very happy to respond and talk about stuff like that, it definitely does sound interesting.
fastest 2 ways to get the word out; Make a website describing drought and some good solutions to help out. brand it as a NFP, i.e. shower heads, not running a tap while brushing your teeth, aethetic lawns that are not grass, water saving technology for farming systems. maximise for “saving water is saving money is saving the environment” win-win-win messages.
print 10,000 flyers and hand them out to people. (at 100/day thats gonna take a while)
pay for online ads targetting the geographic area which point to water saving website.
bonus:
offer a glass of “saved” water to politicians. “This water was not wasted on ugly grass so that now we can drink it. This water was saved because we handed out shower timers, isn’t it great that water is freely available and we treat our resources with respect”
call local politicians; encourage them to put out water saving propaganda. create a mockup and offer to them for free.
existing resource: http://www.savewater.com.au/how-to-save-water/in-the-home
TL;DR; Push a public message about it; be loud about it.