I don’t really think anyone else can know what’s going on inside my head except me. Perhaps I’m being a bit solipsistic here, but how could they? Empathy is more important than sympathy, so the only person I would trust to give me a reliable model of myself (better than I could model myself due to biases) would be someone whose already gone through that transformation. I think most people on LW are fairly intelligent people and so there will be very few people who are intelligent enough to develop that model.
Curiouskid
Sorry if this has already been addressed. I didn’t take the time to read all 300 comments.
It seems to me that if there were an omniscient Omega, the world would be deterministic, and you wouldn’t have free will. You have the illusion of choice, but your choice is already known by Omega. Hence, try (it’s futile) to make your illusory choice a one-boxer.
Personally, I don’t believe in determinism or the concept of Omega. This is a nice thought experiment though.
I’m glad you introduced me to the term meta-wanting because it reminds me on an argument against free will.
Basically, you can go to a CD store (itunes now) and you can choose which CD you choose to buy because you prefer that CD. But you cannot prefer to prefer that CD. You simply prefer (1st order) that CD. You could try to raise the order of your preferences (an idea that had not occurred to me until now), but at the next highest order, your decision has already been made.
To me, that is the most convincing argument against free will that I’ve ever come across. Has anyone heard it before?
“Self-honesty is at its most fragile when we’re not sure which path is the righteous one.”
Are we ever “sure” of anything (especially ethics)?
“would we don’t mind to be alive ever after because we died when the computation halted? This doesn’t seem to be the case.”
Typo.
A good example of the paradox between wanting and liking is tickling. People enjoy being tickled. BUT they don’t want to be tickled (at least while they’re being tickled). I wonder what neuroscience has to say about that.
Just out of curiosity, has anybody read into the evidence for parapsychology? The best book I’ve found is “The Conscious Universe” by Dean Radin. There is a critical review of the book here: http://www.skepticreport.com/sr/?p=537
Why is research into climate funded? I imagine if the scare of global warming were eliminated, there would be much less funding.
How would it undermine his normative beliefs if he thought it was universal?
I believe Schopenhauer came to the same conclusion.
“Reading is merely a surrogate for thinking for yourself; it means letting someone else direct your thoughts. Many books, moreover, serve merely to show how many ways there are of being wrong, and how far astray you yourself would go if you followed their guidance. You should read only when your own thoughts dry up, which will of course happen frequently enough even to the best heads; but to banish your own thoughts so as to take up a book is a sin against the holy ghost; it is like deserting untrammeled nature to look at a herbarium or engravings of landscapes.”
However, I don’t think I would go so far as to say that you should think until you run out of thoughts. Finding the right balance seems to be an art we are continually improving on—adapting to each situation.
In swimming, you can point to Michael Phelps and say “try to imitate him as closely as possible”. There is a “right” way to swim. However, rationality isn’t this way. There is no zero-sum rationality game. It is constantly improving. And the only way it can improve is by self-experimentation in rationality. Ultimately, I think that Schopenhauer said it best:
Reading is merely a surrogate for thinking for yourself; it means letting someone else direct your thoughts. Many books, moreover, serve merely to show how many ways there are of being wrong, and how far astray you yourself would go if you followed their guidance. You should read only when your own thoughts dry up, which will of course happen frequently enough even to the best heads; but to banish your own thoughts so as to take up a book is a sin against the holy ghost; it is like deserting untrammeled nature to look at a herbarium or engravings of landscapes.
Ultimately, if the field of rationality is to advance, then people must be doing self-experimentation (introspection) to advance it.
I do think that you can learn from other people who are “further along the path” than you. For example: I’ve learned on my own that when I’m depressed, I think the same irrational thoughts. However, it wasn’t until I memorized the appropriate responses (as opposed to synthesizing them again each time the thought came up) that my irrational thought patterns were immediately recognized as irrational. I could have learned this from somebody else, but considering how much self-help is tailored to a non-rational audience, I think it’s just better to develop your own methods. However, I think the rationality boot camps sound interesting (as the advice is tailored to people like us).
Interesting studies. I’ve noticed that the Uncertainty Principle applies to the “use of “think-aloud protocols” and immediately retrospective reports in the study of problem solving.” It’s not really the same as normal introspection.
Reading is merely a surrogate for thinking for yourself; it means letting someone else direct your thoughts. Many books, moreover, serve merely to show how many ways there are of being wrong, and how far astray you yourself would go if you followed their guidance. You should read only when your own thoughts dry up, which will of course happen frequently enough even to the best heads; but to banish your own thoughts so as to take up a book is a sin against the holy ghost; it is like deserting untrammeled nature to look at a herbarium or engravings of landscapes.
-Schopenhauer
Generally, reading criticisms of other theories will save you a lot of time. It protects you from wasting your time reading those other theories. This site is run the the people who organized the occupy wallstreet protests. There’s plenty of criticism. I hear they are coming out with a textbook soon.
The point is not that we convince them of evolution. Who cares? The point is that they become full-blown rationalists who think for themselves. Let’s set our standards a little higher and look at the fundamental causes of irrationality (the education system). Let’s set our sights a little higher.
Is there going to be one for the summer of 2012?
I find that annotating articles really helps me retain information. This was hard for me to do online until I found diigo.com. there are some other sites that are listed on wikipedia, but this one is the best IMO.
“I find that students, after having taken an evolutionary biology course, STILL fundamentally don’t understand.”
Could you elaborate on this? I haven’t taken an evolutionary biology course, but I’d love to know what to look out for if I do decide to take one.
WARNING: long post. I detail my entire intellectual development and how I came to be interested in LW. More posts on LW should have short summaries like this one (IMO).
Hello! I’m a 17 year old high school student. I was raised a lukewarm christian (I went to church maybe 5 times a year). Around 3rd grade I deduced Santa Clause could not exist. Around 9th grade I first HEARD the word atheism (and shortly thereafter agreed). I’ve always wanted to have some big impact on the planet. When I was younger (5th-8th grade), I thought I would try to become a professional basketball player (this is embarrassing to write).
I decided in 9th grade that intellectuals have far more impact on the world than basketball players and have been reading as much as possible ever since. Brave New World had a profound impact on me was largely responsible for my turn away from basketball and more towards Utopian thinking. I know “Politics is the Mind Killer”, but I feel that watching the zeitgeist films had an important impact on my early readings. It showed me how stupid everything that I’d been told before I could think critically was. I still want to create Utopias (Utilitarianism is the only ethical code that makes any sense). However, I think that after reading David Pearce’s “Hedonistic Imperative” I’ve focused less on things like the zeitgeist movement and occupy wallstreet and focused more on finding happiness independently of one’s external circumstances (Milton said that “the mind can make a heaven of hell and a hell of heaven).
This first led me to Buddhism. However, the lack of philosophical rigor coupled with the hypocrisy of swami’s who have been accused of sexual harassment has led me to turn away from Buddhism as a perfect formula for happiness and Utopia (I still meditate though. As Sam Harris has said (paraphrasing), Buddhists don’t have a monopoly on meditation). My researching Buddhism also coincided with me becoming depressed. I’ve certainly improved drastically since then,but I still will suffer brief bouts of negative emotion (rest. Exercise. Nootropics. And a weekend of productivity reliably quell these feelings). During this period of reading about Buddhism, I read a bit about parapsychology and the statistical evidence for it.
But recently, I’ve decided that the evidence for and against parapsychology is relatively unimportant (wireheading is more conducive to Utopia than levitating). But, I am not satisfactorily convinced of the truth or falsity of parapsychology (keeping an open mind). I’m not quite sure when I plan to conclude whether it’s true or not. I’ve decided that I’m just going to keep up my meditation practice because if it were true, I’d want to be able to do it and the first step is to be able to meditate better regardless of whether I regard it as true or false. Also, the notion of enlightenment doesn’t really seem consistent (people mean a lot of different things when they say it, just like when they say god). Furthermore, I think “enlightenment” is something that is purely neurological (no reincarnation) (Wiki:God Helmet).
So, based on all the previous information, I’ve concluded that I want to see neuroscience advance to the point that we can create a neurological utopia like the one proposed in David Pearce’s abolitionist project. However, after doing a lot of research on nootropics, I’m concerned that our current state of understanding of the brain is very limited and that there is a lack of funding for the type of research that we need (nootropics for normal individuals and whole brain emulation). Thus, I’m torn between deciding to major in neuroscience and majoring in something that would be conducive to the restructuring of society so that more neuroscience relevant neuroscience research can be done. I would try to restructure society by improving our educational system and creating seasteads (I was very excited to see that Patri Friedman is a member of this forum). Also, I came up with the idea behind debategraphs.org before I discovered that the site already existed. Either way, I realize that the contributions of any one individual are minimal (Somebody else came up with the theory of evolution at the same time Darwin did).
So that’s my intellectual development thus far. I’m currently reading Bostrom’s “Roadmap to WBE” in order to gain a better idea of the neuroscience and feasibility of WBE and this should help me make a more informed decision on what to major in. Also, I’m going to read the “Fun Theory” sequence as soon as I get enough time. I’m also reading about hypnosis and the placebo effect in order to get an idea of how much control the mind can have over itself (this fits in with my earlier Buddhism research).
After reading around here for a little while, I feel that I have finally found a home. I am the only person I know personally who is interested in all of the topics I’ve listed above. I have a few friends with a minor interest in philosophy and seasteading, but they aren’t nearly as serious about learning as I am. I really love it that this community exists. I’m not used to feeling dumb (and I don’t plan on feeling that way for much longer). I want to go to the rationality boot camp and meet some of you in person. I’m still puzzling out why I want to create a Utopia and have a big impact on the planet. I don’t really know what I’d do without this goal in mind. It seems relatively silly given my view on the historical impact of any one individual. Yet, I don’t know what belief I would replace it with (and I may not be willing to give it up).
I need to read Bostrom’s “Roadmap to WBE” and figure out how I think the Fermi paradox most likely plays out. It may very well be that if WBE is not possible that I will return to taking a parapsychological and meditative approach to creating Utopia (though I think that I’d create seasteads, education reform, and do a lot of reading on LW about WBE before I made such a conclusion.). I realize it’s a little sad that I can sum up most of my intellectual development in one post. Random stuff: I’m very physically fit. I eat the healthiest diet possible and workout regularly. I enjoy a wide variety of music. I learned to read by playing pokemon on the gameboy color.
- 26 Nov 2011 15:52 UTC; 13 points) 's comment on Welcome to LessWrong (For highschoolers) by (
“and is as irrelevant for rationalists as astrology.”
Do you mean quick-and-dirty programming or this book?