A final defense: why spend money helping out people in other countries? A nation’s obligation is to its own! The people saved by foreign aid aren’t Americans, so why should we bother to help them? In response:
I think the big thing to me is American culture kinda says we should. Think of some of the most famous uniquely American cultural icons in modern history, the Superhero. People with power above almost every other person who protects and helps other just because they believe it’s the responsible thing to do with power. One of the most famous American media quotes ever is Uncle Ben’s “With great power comes great responsibility” line.
One of Starfleet’s primary duties was to offer humanitarian aid whenever possible. (VOY: “Learning Curve”, “Counterpoint”)
In the TOS episode Whom God Destroys Kirk talks about the humanitarian dreams of these founders
They were humanitarians and statesmen, and they had a dream--
a dream that became a reality and spread throughout the stars,
a dream that made Mr. Spock and me brothers.
So much of the positive optimistic American culture and media is dedicated to a similar idea, that it is good to help people just for the sake of it, especially when you’re powerful.
That doesn’t mean you should do everything everywhere all the time. For example the Federation officially maintains a non-interference rule for less advanced civilizations, and while it’s often breached in the goal of helping others, it is an acknowledgement that involvement isn’t always the correct option. And in Sanctuary the topic of helping refugees find a new homeworld clashing with the resource struggles of Bajor at the moment is treated with respect to both sides, though siding more towards aid as the correct solution there.
And reflecting this, the US has a strong history of bipartisan aid efforts. PEPFAR can only be cut because it existed to begin with, and USAID was made in the 60s surviving all the way till now! Heck even now the main arguments out of the admin aren’t that we shouldn’t help people, but instead that the programs are corrupt or counterproductive or hurting us too much in giving (like the Bajor refugee example). They say “America first”, not America Only.
Now I have my disagreements about these claims, and I think the way we went about it even if they were true about some parts is still irresponsible but even in rhetoric they can’t find themselves saying that helping others is wrong! I don’t know what they do and don’t personally believe, but it suggests something there.
And polling also seems to suggest that Americans are pretty pro help, they just don’t really have a grasp on the reality of foreign aid.
the November poll finds the median estimate of the percentage of the federal budget most Americans think is spent on foreign aid is 25%. When you ask Americans how much would be appropriate to spend on foreign assistance, the median response is 10%. In fact, only a little over 1% of the federal budget currently goes to foreign assistance.
Like yeah if I thought a quarter of my taxes (or even more for a pretty good portion of respondents) were going to foreign aid I would be in support of scaling that back too! I think a lot of other people advocating for programs like PEPFAR would feel the same way. But even with that Americans still name a pretty hefty amount of aid they want to provide. Now I don’t think we can take the exact number too seriously, the American public is bad with percentages and likely doesn’t realize just how big that is either but the direction is there towards helping people in need around the world.
In that sense your question of “The people saved by foreign aid aren’t Americans, so why should we bother to help them?” is practically a weakman, because it seems most Americans do believe we are obligated to help others and their opposition is mostly operating under the idea that we spend insanely large amounts of money to do it, that our country is in such a state of emergency that we need to focus everything on ourselves first (like the Bajor refugee example), or that it’s corrupt/fraud being used to smuggle in unrelated things like “leftist propaganda” (like Musk highlighting the spending he considered woke) rather than an actual opposition towards aid to those in need. The people saying we shouldn’t help anyone are small in number and not representative of the general population.
Edit: This last point I think is actually the case with a lot of these topics. For example Americans are still pretty favorable of immigration. Trump’s [previous] popularity on the topic might seem like it comes from a strong “we hate foreigners coming here” perspective, but polling + actual talks with people suggests it’s more like a foreign aid situation. They don’t want zero immigration, in fact they quite like accepting legal immigrants. They are just concerned about the ideas of criminals and bad actors sneaking in through loopholes or people being lazy and living off aid instead of working. The opposition to deporting those seen as hard workers here in the country is shown with Joe Rogan for example, one of America’s most popular podcasters who had endorsed Trump this very election! Likewise, I imagine the average person’s perception of immigration is off with reality but they don’t seem to be against immigration nearly as much as the admin is.
Edit2: And I live in a Trump+20 rural area! My talks with people seem to suggest that even quite a bit of supporters are still generally favorable of immigration as an idea. Many seem to be happy overall because they think Trump is removing lots of dangerous criminals, but they do seem to think the removal of workers is just unfortunate collateral to this. Maybe it’s a selection bias of what type of Trump supporters I interact with in my life, but they are still Trump supporters. Like the lady who runs the cleaning company I use, she was boldly in support of Trump and yet many of her workers are Mexicans and she speaks Spanish.
I think a lot of politicians and pundits see victory as support for going all out, but in reality a lot of people are only marginally favorable. They were scared of criminals and welfare thieves, not farm workers and house cleaners and landscapers.
One of the most famous American media quotes ever is Uncle Ben’s “With great power comes great responsibility” line.
Yes. And in the context of Spider-Man, it was about a situation where Spider-Man should have helped people when it had little cost to himself. It was, of course, used to explain why Spider-Man went out superheroing, but as such it didn’t actually make sense.
Now I have my disagreements about these claims, and I think the way we went about it even if they were true about some parts is still irresponsible but even in rhetoric they can’t find themselves saying that helping others is wrong! I don’t know what they do and don’t personally believe, but it suggests something there.
Not many people think that helping others is wrong. But “wrong” and “not an obligation” are very different things.
Yes. And in the context of Spider-Man, it was about a situation where Spider-Man should have helped people when it had little cost to himself. It was, of course, used to explain why Spider-Man went out superheroing, but as such it didn’t actually make sense.
“Another definition of a hero is someone who is concerned about other people’s well-being, and will go out of his or her way to help them – even if there is no chance of a reward. That person who helps others simply because it should or must be done, and because it is the right thing to do, is indeed without a doubt, a real superhero.”
A hero to Stan Lee is a person who helps because they feel it is right to help.
Not many people think that helping others is wrong. But “wrong” and “not an obligation” are very different things.
And USAID was something that many religious charity groups worked with due to similar goals.
C.R.S. is governed by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops with the mission to serve the poorest and most vulnerable overseas. In 2023, it worked in about 120 countries serving over 200 million people through 1,000 projects. It serves people on the basis of need, not creed. U.S.A.I.D. has provided funding and non-financial support to C.R.S. for decades, accounting for about 50 to 60 percent of its budget, or between $500 million and $700 million per year. C.R.S. works with and through 2,000 field partners, about half of which include local Catholic parishes and dioceses. U.S.A.I.D. has been a significant and longtime partner of the U.S. and global Catholic Church.
I’m not entirely sure what you’re trying to say but Spider-Man goes out saving people because he has the power to save people.
The incident that supposedly taught Spider-Man that with great power comes great responsibility was him refusing to stop a criminal and the criminal killing Uncle Ben. But in that story, he could have stopped the criminal easily, with negligible loss to himself.
What did not happen in that story is that someone asked Spider-Man to give up his social life for six months being a hero, he refused, and Uncle Ben would have lived if only he had stopped some particular criminal 20 miles away at 1 AM during the fourth month. The lesson that Spider-Man took out of it—that he has to help people at great expense to himself—doesn’t match the actual event—where he should have helped someone at no expense to himself.
the most believed in religious text of our country has plenty to say about helping those in need for the sake of it
Are you a religious person? Do you believe we should run society according to the Bible? I am not, and I do not.
And the main problem with USAID, as others have pointed out, is that helping people was entangled up with promotion of left-wing politics. Saying that we are forced to keep promoting the left-wing politics because otherwise we wouldn’t be saving people is a hostage puppy.
The incident that supposedly taught Spider-Man that with great power comes great responsibility was him refusing to stop a criminal and the criminal killing Uncle Ben. But in that story, he could have stopped the criminal easily, with negligible loss to himself.
In the original Amazing Fantasy #15, Spider-man declines to stop a burglar in a building earlier that day. A police officer is like “hey mister, all you had to do was trip them for me” and Spider-man is like “no, all of that is your problem, I’m through doing things for other it’s all about me.” He wanted to be a TV star.
Then later (days later), Peter arrives home one evening to find a police car stopped in front of his house. Uncle Ben was shot in a burglary and it was the same guy as he learns in the warehouse. (Interestingly enough, Ben at the time did not say his famous line, the text is there as commentary but Ben himself did not say it).
Uncle Ben would have lived if only he had stopped some particular criminal 20 miles away at 1 AM during the fourth month
So it’s actually a lot closer to this. His failure to stop the random burglar at the store led to Uncle Ben dying.
The lesson that Spider-Man took out of it—that he has to help people at great expense to himself—doesn’t match the actual event—where he should have helped someone at no expense to himself.
It’s not like the criminal was aiming at Uncle Ben and Spider-man just refused to save him, it was an incident multiple days (maybe even weeks) before where he refused to intervene! And Peter doesn’t want the pain he experienced to happen to others.
It’s very similar reasoning to Batman, he has no reason to take up the mantle and fight crime past his parents murderers but he does so anyway. They are empathetic and caring people. They are aspirational stories about the moral responsibility to do good for others, they’re pretty blatant about it and even Stan Lee literally says that is what makes a hero.
Are you a religious person? Do you believe we should run society according to the Bible? I am not, and I do not.
No I am not religious, but in a general point about American society America’s main religion is extremely relevant. The guiding moral philosophy of most Americans says helping out others is what God wants of them.
And the main problem with USAID, as others have pointed out, is that helping people was entangled up with promotion of left-wing politics. Saying that we are forced to keep promoting the left-wing politics because otherwise we wouldn’t be saving people is a hostage puppy.
That’s a perfectly fair argument if you think it’s not being done properly. Why exactly getting rid of the left wing parts requires the killing off programs like PEPFAR and other very useful and helpful programs that even major charities (like the Vatican which isn’t some incredible left wing propaganda group) say are helpful is beyond me, but if your argument is that it is necessary then fine.
I never said USAID is perfect, and there are potential reasons it needs to be dismantled even at the possible costs of millions of lives. Just that “We shouldn’t help others out” is a very niche view in the US to the point of basically being a weakman argument, even Republicans still seem to poll 5% of government funding going to foreign aid.
I think the big thing to me is American culture kinda says we should. Think of some of the most famous uniquely American cultural icons in modern history, the Superhero. People with power above almost every other person who protects and helps other just because they believe it’s the responsible thing to do with power. One of the most famous American media quotes ever is Uncle Ben’s “With great power comes great responsibility” line.
Or take Star Trek. Starfleet and the federation runs humanitarian programs all across the galaxy. From providing medical supplies to war torn areas to helping Bajor recover in DS9 (although that is helped by the discovery of the wormhole in the area). As the Star Trek wiki itself points out
In the TOS episode Whom God Destroys Kirk talks about the humanitarian dreams of these founders
So much of the positive optimistic American culture and media is dedicated to a similar idea, that it is good to help people just for the sake of it, especially when you’re powerful.
That doesn’t mean you should do everything everywhere all the time. For example the Federation officially maintains a non-interference rule for less advanced civilizations, and while it’s often breached in the goal of helping others, it is an acknowledgement that involvement isn’t always the correct option. And in Sanctuary the topic of helping refugees find a new homeworld clashing with the resource struggles of Bajor at the moment is treated with respect to both sides, though siding more towards aid as the correct solution there.
And in media like The Amazing Spider-man issues #31-33 and the movie Spider-Man 2 Peter’s struggle balancing his personal life with his superhero is a central part of the plot.
And reflecting this, the US has a strong history of bipartisan aid efforts. PEPFAR can only be cut because it existed to begin with, and USAID was made in the 60s surviving all the way till now! Heck even now the main arguments out of the admin aren’t that we shouldn’t help people, but instead that the programs are corrupt or counterproductive or hurting us too much in giving (like the Bajor refugee example). They say “America first”, not America Only.
Now I have my disagreements about these claims, and I think the way we went about it even if they were true about some parts is still irresponsible but even in rhetoric they can’t find themselves saying that helping others is wrong! I don’t know what they do and don’t personally believe, but it suggests something there.
And polling also seems to suggest that Americans are pretty pro help, they just don’t really have a grasp on the reality of foreign aid.
Like yeah if I thought a quarter of my taxes (or even more for a pretty good portion of respondents) were going to foreign aid I would be in support of scaling that back too! I think a lot of other people advocating for programs like PEPFAR would feel the same way. But even with that Americans still name a pretty hefty amount of aid they want to provide. Now I don’t think we can take the exact number too seriously, the American public is bad with percentages and likely doesn’t realize just how big that is either but the direction is there towards helping people in need around the world.
In that sense your question of “The people saved by foreign aid aren’t Americans, so why should we bother to help them?” is practically a weakman, because it seems most Americans do believe we are obligated to help others and their opposition is mostly operating under the idea that we spend insanely large amounts of money to do it, that our country is in such a state of emergency that we need to focus everything on ourselves first (like the Bajor refugee example), or that it’s corrupt/fraud being used to smuggle in unrelated things like “leftist propaganda” (like Musk highlighting the spending he considered woke) rather than an actual opposition towards aid to those in need. The people saying we shouldn’t help anyone are small in number and not representative of the general population.
Edit: This last point I think is actually the case with a lot of these topics. For example Americans are still pretty favorable of immigration. Trump’s [previous] popularity on the topic might seem like it comes from a strong “we hate foreigners coming here” perspective, but polling + actual talks with people suggests it’s more like a foreign aid situation. They don’t want zero immigration, in fact they quite like accepting legal immigrants. They are just concerned about the ideas of criminals and bad actors sneaking in through loopholes or people being lazy and living off aid instead of working. The opposition to deporting those seen as hard workers here in the country is shown with Joe Rogan for example, one of America’s most popular podcasters who had endorsed Trump this very election! Likewise, I imagine the average person’s perception of immigration is off with reality but they don’t seem to be against immigration nearly as much as the admin is.
Edit2: And I live in a Trump+20 rural area! My talks with people seem to suggest that even quite a bit of supporters are still generally favorable of immigration as an idea. Many seem to be happy overall because they think Trump is removing lots of dangerous criminals, but they do seem to think the removal of workers is just unfortunate collateral to this. Maybe it’s a selection bias of what type of Trump supporters I interact with in my life, but they are still Trump supporters. Like the lady who runs the cleaning company I use, she was boldly in support of Trump and yet many of her workers are Mexicans and she speaks Spanish.
I think a lot of politicians and pundits see victory as support for going all out, but in reality a lot of people are only marginally favorable. They were scared of criminals and welfare thieves, not farm workers and house cleaners and landscapers.
Yes. And in the context of Spider-Man, it was about a situation where Spider-Man should have helped people when it had little cost to himself. It was, of course, used to explain why Spider-Man went out superheroing, but as such it didn’t actually make sense.
Not many people think that helping others is wrong. But “wrong” and “not an obligation” are very different things.
I’m not entirely sure what you’re trying to say but Spider-Man goes out saving people because he has the power to save people. Like much of early superheroes, they’re aspirational. And Stan Lee was pretty blatant about this https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/nov/13/superpower-luck-stan-lee-quotes-comic-characters
A hero to Stan Lee is a person who helps because they feel it is right to help.
That’s true they are different, but helping others being inherently good is imbedded deep in American culture! Also not just media, the most believed in religious text of our country has plenty to say about helping those in need for the sake of it
And USAID was something that many religious charity groups worked with due to similar goals.
The incident that supposedly taught Spider-Man that with great power comes great responsibility was him refusing to stop a criminal and the criminal killing Uncle Ben. But in that story, he could have stopped the criminal easily, with negligible loss to himself.
What did not happen in that story is that someone asked Spider-Man to give up his social life for six months being a hero, he refused, and Uncle Ben would have lived if only he had stopped some particular criminal 20 miles away at 1 AM during the fourth month. The lesson that Spider-Man took out of it—that he has to help people at great expense to himself—doesn’t match the actual event—where he should have helped someone at no expense to himself.
Are you a religious person? Do you believe we should run society according to the Bible? I am not, and I do not.
And the main problem with USAID, as others have pointed out, is that helping people was entangled up with promotion of left-wing politics. Saying that we are forced to keep promoting the left-wing politics because otherwise we wouldn’t be saving people is a hostage puppy.
In the original Amazing Fantasy #15, Spider-man declines to stop a burglar in a building earlier that day. A police officer is like “hey mister, all you had to do was trip them for me” and Spider-man is like “no, all of that is your problem, I’m through doing things for other it’s all about me.” He wanted to be a TV star.
Then later (days later), Peter arrives home one evening to find a police car stopped in front of his house. Uncle Ben was shot in a burglary and it was the same guy as he learns in the warehouse. (Interestingly enough, Ben at the time did not say his famous line, the text is there as commentary but Ben himself did not say it).
So it’s actually a lot closer to this. His failure to stop the random burglar at the store led to Uncle Ben dying.
It’s not like the criminal was aiming at Uncle Ben and Spider-man just refused to save him, it was an incident multiple days (maybe even weeks) before where he refused to intervene! And Peter doesn’t want the pain he experienced to happen to others.
It’s very similar reasoning to Batman, he has no reason to take up the mantle and fight crime past his parents murderers but he does so anyway. They are empathetic and caring people. They are aspirational stories about the moral responsibility to do good for others, they’re pretty blatant about it and even Stan Lee literally says that is what makes a hero.
No I am not religious, but in a general point about American society America’s main religion is extremely relevant. The guiding moral philosophy of most Americans says helping out others is what God wants of them.
That’s a perfectly fair argument if you think it’s not being done properly. Why exactly getting rid of the left wing parts requires the killing off programs like PEPFAR and other very useful and helpful programs that even major charities (like the Vatican which isn’t some incredible left wing propaganda group) say are helpful is beyond me, but if your argument is that it is necessary then fine.
I never said USAID is perfect, and there are potential reasons it needs to be dismantled even at the possible costs of millions of lives. Just that “We shouldn’t help others out” is a very niche view in the US to the point of basically being a weakman argument, even Republicans still seem to poll 5% of government funding going to foreign aid.
Yes, but as you yourself note:
Spider-Man could have stopped him with negligible cost to himself.
But it’s not “we shouldn’t help others out”. It’s “we are not obligated to help others out”. That’s very different.