Hey, thank you for taking the time to reply honestly and in detail as well. With regards to what you want, I think that this is in many senses also what I am looking for, especially the last item about tying in collective behaviour to reasoning about intelligence. I think one of the frames you might find the most useful is one you’ve already covered—power as a coordination game. As you alluded to in your original post, people aren’t in a massive hive mind/conspiracy—they mostly want to do what other successful people seem to be doing, which translates well to a coordination game and also explains the rapid “board flips” once a critical mass of support/rejection against some proposition is reached. For example, witness the rapid switch to majority support of gay marriage in the 2010s amongst the population in general.
Would also love to discuss this with you in more detail (I trained as an English student and also studied Digital Humanities). I will leave off with a few book suggestions that, while maybe not directly answering your needs, you might find interesting.
Capitalist Realism by Mark Fisher (as close to a self-portrait by the modern humanities as it gets)
Hyperobjects by Timothy Morton (high level perspective on how cultural, material, and social currents impact our views on reality)
How minds change by David McRaney (not humanities, but pop sci about the science of belief and persuasion)
P.S. Re: the point about Yarvin being right, betting on the dominant group in society embracing a dangerous delusion is a remarkably safe bet. (E.g. McCarthyism, the aforementioned Bavarian Witch Hunts, fascism, lysenkoism etc.)
Capitalist Realism by Mark Fisher (as close to a self-portrait by the modern humanities as it gets)
At least reading the wikipedia, this… does not seem so self-conscious to me. Eg.
Fisher regards capitalist realism as emerging from a purposeful push by the neoliberal right to transform the attitudes of both the general population and the left towards capitalism and specifically the post-Fordist form of capitalism that prevailed throughout the 1980s. The relative inability of the political left to come up with an alternative economic model in response to the rise of neoliberal capitalism and the concurrent Reaganomics era created a vacuum that facilitated the birth of a capitalist realist perspective. The collapse of the Soviet Union, which Fisher believes represented the only real example of a working non-capitalist system, further cemented the place of capitalist realism both politically and in the general population, and was hailed as the decisive final victory of capitalism. According to Fisher, in a post-Soviet era, unchecked capitalism was able to reframe history into a capitalist narrative in which neoliberalism was the result of a natural progression of history and even embodied the culmination of human development.
and
Fisher argues that the bank bailouts following the 2008 economic crisis were a quintessential example of capitalist realism in action, reasoning that the bailouts occurred largely because the idea of allowing the banking system to fail was unimaginable to both politicians and the general population. Due to the intrinsic value of banks to the capitalist system, Fisher proposes that the influence of capitalist realism meant that such a failure was never considered an option. As a consequence, Fisher observes, the neoliberal system survived and capitalist realism was further validated. Fisher classifies the current state of capitalist realism in the neoliberal system in the following terms:
The only powerful agents influencing politicians and managers in education are business interests. It’s become far too easy to ignore workers and, partly because of this, workers feel increasingly helpless and impotent. The concerted attack on unions by neoliberal interest groups, together with the shift from a Fordist to a post-Fordist organisation of the economy – the move towards casualisation, just-in-time production, globalization – has eroded the power base of unions [and thus the labor force].
These are not exactly hard-hitting or at all novel or even interesting criticisms. And they’re not even criticisms of humanities! So how can it be self-conscious?
I think you’re saying something here but I’m going to factor it a bit to be sure.
“not exactly hard-hitting”
“not… at all novel”
“not… even interesting”
“not even criticisms of the humanities”
One and three I’m just going to call ‘subjective’ (and I think I would just agree with you if the Wikipedia article were actually representative of the contents of the book, which it is not).
Re 4: The book itself is actually largely about his experiences as a professor, being subjected to the forces of elite coordination and bureaucracy, and reads a lot like Yarvin’s critiques of the Cathedral (although Fisher identifies these as representative of a pseudo-left).
Re 2: The novelty comes from the contemporaneity of the writing. Fisher is doing a very early-20th century Marxist thing of actually talking about one’s experience of the world, and relating that back to broader trends, in plain language. The world has changed enough that the work has become tragically dated, and I personally wouldn’t recommend it to people who aren’t already somewhat sympathetic to his views, since its strength around the time of its publication (that contemporaneity) has, predictably, becomes its weakness.
The work that more does the thing testingthewaters is gesturing toward, imo, is Exiting the Vampire Castle. The views expressed in this work are directly upstream of his death: his firm (and early) rebuke of cancel culture and identity politics precipitated rejection and bullying from other leftists on twitter, deepening his depression. He later killed himself.
Important note if you actually read the essay: he’s setting his aim at similar phenomena to Yarvin, but is identifying the cause differently // he is a leftist talking to other leftists, so is using terms like ‘capital’ in a valenced way. I think the utility of this work, for someone who is not part of the audience he is critiquing, is that it shows that the left has any answer at all to the phenomena Yarvin and Ngo are calling out; that they’re not, wholesale, oblivious to these problems and, in fact, the principal divide in the contemporary left is between those who reject the Cathedral and those who seek to join it.
(obligatory “Nick Land was Mark Fisher’s dissertation advisor.”)
Hey, thank you for taking the time to reply honestly and in detail as well. With regards to what you want, I think that this is in many senses also what I am looking for, especially the last item about tying in collective behaviour to reasoning about intelligence. I think one of the frames you might find the most useful is one you’ve already covered—power as a coordination game. As you alluded to in your original post, people aren’t in a massive hive mind/conspiracy—they mostly want to do what other successful people seem to be doing, which translates well to a coordination game and also explains the rapid “board flips” once a critical mass of support/rejection against some proposition is reached. For example, witness the rapid switch to majority support of gay marriage in the 2010s amongst the population in general.
Would also love to discuss this with you in more detail (I trained as an English student and also studied Digital Humanities). I will leave off with a few book suggestions that, while maybe not directly answering your needs, you might find interesting.
Capitalist Realism by Mark Fisher (as close to a self-portrait by the modern humanities as it gets)
Hyperobjects by Timothy Morton (high level perspective on how cultural, material, and social currents impact our views on reality)
How minds change by David McRaney (not humanities, but pop sci about the science of belief and persuasion)
P.S. Re: the point about Yarvin being right, betting on the dominant group in society embracing a dangerous delusion is a remarkably safe bet. (E.g. McCarthyism, the aforementioned Bavarian Witch Hunts, fascism, lysenkoism etc.)
At least reading the wikipedia, this… does not seem so self-conscious to me. Eg.
and
These are not exactly hard-hitting or at all novel or even interesting criticisms. And they’re not even criticisms of humanities! So how can it be self-conscious?
I think you’re saying something here but I’m going to factor it a bit to be sure.
“not exactly hard-hitting”
“not… at all novel”
“not… even interesting”
“not even criticisms of the humanities”
One and three I’m just going to call ‘subjective’ (and I think I would just agree with you if the Wikipedia article were actually representative of the contents of the book, which it is not).
Re 4: The book itself is actually largely about his experiences as a professor, being subjected to the forces of elite coordination and bureaucracy, and reads a lot like Yarvin’s critiques of the Cathedral (although Fisher identifies these as representative of a pseudo-left).
Re 2: The novelty comes from the contemporaneity of the writing. Fisher is doing a very early-20th century Marxist thing of actually talking about one’s experience of the world, and relating that back to broader trends, in plain language. The world has changed enough that the work has become tragically dated, and I personally wouldn’t recommend it to people who aren’t already somewhat sympathetic to his views, since its strength around the time of its publication (that contemporaneity) has, predictably, becomes its weakness.
The work that more does the thing testingthewaters is gesturing toward, imo, is Exiting the Vampire Castle. The views expressed in this work are directly upstream of his death: his firm (and early) rebuke of cancel culture and identity politics precipitated rejection and bullying from other leftists on twitter, deepening his depression. He later killed himself.
Important note if you actually read the essay: he’s setting his aim at similar phenomena to Yarvin, but is identifying the cause differently // he is a leftist talking to other leftists, so is using terms like ‘capital’ in a valenced way. I think the utility of this work, for someone who is not part of the audience he is critiquing, is that it shows that the left has any answer at all to the phenomena Yarvin and Ngo are calling out; that they’re not, wholesale, oblivious to these problems and, in fact, the principal divide in the contemporary left is between those who reject the Cathedral and those who seek to join it.
(obligatory “Nick Land was Mark Fisher’s dissertation advisor.”)
Happy to take your word on these things if the wikipedia article is unrepresentative!