They are most definitely two different things, though it is popular to conflate them. Innocence of Evil does not require naivete, only that you are pure of doing the evil.
And the purity distinction is important. Otherwise we will fall prey to the delusion that it was our goodness itself which betrayed us or that in order to be pure, we must be fools regarding some part of the Truth. Though it is popular to think, as you have pointed out in the sexual distinction above, that awareness of consequence necessarily begets heaviness or loss of innocence (as if we cannot now take wiser action and secure our freedom, whereas prior to accurate knowledge, it was only through dumb luck something had not already gone wrong).
As for some psychical scarring occurring due to knowledge of the potential of humans to do harm, yes this is unpleasant, and the knowledge of it may cause some discomfort—as you have said “cognitohazard.” The question then is what is the nature of this discomfort? The bulk of it boils down to self-pity that the world is not as one wishes it to be, or that the world contains people who are damaged. The remainder, what you called “psychic scarring,” is usually an accretion of previous unhealed trauma getting triggered (PTSD), or one’s self-pity wishing to perpetuate naivete.
We could say that innocence is supreme sobriety, sober enough and seeing enough truth to be absent of evil in the situation, and naivete is drunkenness—if anything, whatever good it manages is just one’s having stumbled blindly into it. As a simple thought experiment, if sobriety and awareness of truth does not lead to good will and good actions, then our understanding of good will and good actions must be updated; if it is otherwise, then virtue does not exist in any form, and the “effective altruism” aspect of this community is wrongheaded and impossible (naive).
Otherwise, lets get back to the business of being “Innocent as a Dove and as Shrewd as the Serpent.”
I think this disagreement stems from a failure to distinguish which meaning of innocence we are talking about. By my reckoning, there are three major meanings: legal innocence, moral innocence, and naive innocence. Legal innocence is the lack of criminal culpability. Moral innocence is the lack of moral culpability. Naive innocence is the lack of knowledge about sensitive topics.
“Innocent as a dove and shrewd as a serpent” is referring to moral innocence and means: be clever, but only so far as is morally acceptable. Naive innocence, however, which is the topic the OP seems to be discussing, isn’t a virtue, it is ignorance, and curiosity is the virtue which seeks to extinguish it. An innocent listener who doesn’t understand the racial joke should be curious and ask probing questions and do research to better understand what the racial joke teller was trying to say. Then, the next time someone talks in a similar manner, the now savvy listener can make an informed decision about whether that person is the sort of person the listener wants to associate with.
I slightly disagree; I think the OP’s example of a racial joke is a great way to respond. Playing ignorant is a really effective move when someone says something crappy. This is different than actually being ignorant; the goal is simply to demand that they explain the joke. however, strong upvote.
They are most definitely two different things, though it is popular to conflate them. Innocence of Evil does not require naivete, only that you are pure of doing the evil.
And the purity distinction is important. Otherwise we will fall prey to the delusion that it was our goodness itself which betrayed us or that in order to be pure, we must be fools regarding some part of the Truth. Though it is popular to think, as you have pointed out in the sexual distinction above, that awareness of consequence necessarily begets heaviness or loss of innocence (as if we cannot now take wiser action and secure our freedom, whereas prior to accurate knowledge, it was only through dumb luck something had not already gone wrong).
As for some psychical scarring occurring due to knowledge of the potential of humans to do harm, yes this is unpleasant, and the knowledge of it may cause some discomfort—as you have said “cognitohazard.” The question then is what is the nature of this discomfort? The bulk of it boils down to self-pity that the world is not as one wishes it to be, or that the world contains people who are damaged. The remainder, what you called “psychic scarring,” is usually an accretion of previous unhealed trauma getting triggered (PTSD), or one’s self-pity wishing to perpetuate naivete.
We could say that innocence is supreme sobriety, sober enough and seeing enough truth to be absent of evil in the situation, and naivete is drunkenness—if anything, whatever good it manages is just one’s having stumbled blindly into it. As a simple thought experiment, if sobriety and awareness of truth does not lead to good will and good actions, then our understanding of good will and good actions must be updated; if it is otherwise, then virtue does not exist in any form, and the “effective altruism” aspect of this community is wrongheaded and impossible (naive).
Otherwise, lets get back to the business of being “Innocent as a Dove and as Shrewd as the Serpent.”
I think this disagreement stems from a failure to distinguish which meaning of innocence we are talking about. By my reckoning, there are three major meanings: legal innocence, moral innocence, and naive innocence. Legal innocence is the lack of criminal culpability. Moral innocence is the lack of moral culpability. Naive innocence is the lack of knowledge about sensitive topics.
“Innocent as a dove and shrewd as a serpent” is referring to moral innocence and means: be clever, but only so far as is morally acceptable. Naive innocence, however, which is the topic the OP seems to be discussing, isn’t a virtue, it is ignorance, and curiosity is the virtue which seeks to extinguish it. An innocent listener who doesn’t understand the racial joke should be curious and ask probing questions and do research to better understand what the racial joke teller was trying to say. Then, the next time someone talks in a similar manner, the now savvy listener can make an informed decision about whether that person is the sort of person the listener wants to associate with.
I slightly disagree; I think the OP’s example of a racial joke is a great way to respond. Playing ignorant is a really effective move when someone says something crappy. This is different than actually being ignorant; the goal is simply to demand that they explain the joke. however, strong upvote.